Trade Shows, AI Tools, and Pricing (ft. Cerious Productions)

This transcript was generated automatically from the recording and lightly edited for readability, so it may contain errors. The audio and video are the authoritative record. Spot a mistake? Email dario@creativesgrabcoffee.com. For chapter deep-links into the video, use the Timestamps section above.

Dario NouriCo-host, Creatives Grab Coffee00:00hi everyone, welcome to another episode of Creatives Grab Coffee. Today I have Michael from Cerious Productions, who's based out of Las Vegas. And yeah, Michael, welcome to the show.

Michael CerdeirosFounder and CEO, Cerious Productions00:10Thank you. Thank you for having me.

Dario00:12So again, I don't know much about you or your company. so I'm like a listener today. So just tell me a little bit about who you are, how you got into the industry and how you started Cerious Productions.

Michael00:25Yeah, for sure. So, man, it it all started with just a passion and just filming like the dumbest things with a camera. and it really just kinda developed into what I had to build as a company. we started doing podcasts with my uncle back in New York in two thousand seven. You know, he was a trader on the commodities exchange and the need for a broker kinda went away. So we started doing these podcasts on YouTube. long story short, he kinda went viral. Mm it became a big thing. we moved out to Vegas to do live seminars and then I kind of parted ways to do my own thing with video production as I started, you know, getting a love for you know, shooting different things like music videos and weddings and and yeah, so now we're we're here doing trade shows, conventions, you know, brand videos for companies, and you know, social content. and the majority of the stuff that we do, you know, being in Vegas is trade shows and conventions. So that's been keeping us pretty busy.

Dario01:30You guys were doing podcasts all the way back in two thousand seven. When you said podcast, I'm like it must have been a recent thing, but all the way back in two thousand seven, were was that even th I guess that was when they were just starting out, right?

Michael01:42So the thing was YouTube was just bought by Google. And so like, you know, it was just a dumb idea. I was like, you know, the people are doing these things now. Let's let's try it. Let's see what happens. He was like one of the first traders doing like educational videos online. So it kind of you know, he he became like the man in that space. And so it it really blew up. but yeah, more or less it was vlogs versus podcasts. But but yeah, he's at like three thousand episodes now. He's still going.

Dario02:10Wow. We're we just passed the one hundred mark recently and it's it it was like a six year process, so imagine like three thousand. You must be doing it like what, like two a week at least, right? That's crazy.

Michael02:24Almost every night.

Dario02:26my god. so I yeah, I I didn't understand why why why did you move from New York to Vegas? What was the reason for that?

Michael02:34Yeah, so basically, we lived in Staten Island, we're from New York originally, and you know, he gained an audience and the need for like, you know, getting people together and doing like live shows and whatnot became a thing. and so we decided, you know, let's go to Vegas, do seminars, you know, get people to come out to Vegas. It's a lot easier than getting them to come to Staten Island, and and kind of like teach them in big live seminars and and that's kind of what we were doing there too.

Dario03:04I see. Okay, okay.

Michael03:05Yeah.

Dario03:07and then I guess when you decided you wanted to s just branch out on your own and just focus on videos, like tell me a little bit about like that process. Like what was it like? You know, 'cause now you're in a in a different city as well, right?

Michael03:20Yeah, absolutely. I went to YouTube university, you know, so I was just watching music videos and and I was watching tutorials and trying to learn how to like just be better at what I was doing and kind of, you know, I was filming trading videos every night and I really wanted to do something bigger and better. and I found this director, Matt Alonso, and he had just done this music video. and I can't think of the one, but I I just I did a deep dive and I was like, man, this guy is like really doing cool stuff, you know. I I wanna I wanna be like him, you know. And so, I kind of I kind of moved to LA, you know, to kind of follow him and kind of like, you know, do music video stuff. And I wound up working on his team and I worked for Ski TV and got on some pretty big sets and and it was it was really exciting. It was it was a learning experience for me. And, you know, I really just wanted to kind of like be like him and I wound up working on his team and it was it was kinda wild.

Dario04:24Nice. And then so after LA you moved back to Vegas, I guess that what was the sorry.

Michael04:29I did I did LA for a year and a half.

Dario04:32Okay, okay. And then when you move back, well actually how how was the I'm guessing this is like just around like twenty tens, early twenty tens, something like that. What was like the the scene like over there?

Michael04:46Yeah, was around twenty fourteen, twenty thirteen. it was you know, it was it was a little tough to get in, you know, because it it felt like if you don't run with a crew or if you're not working with the same people every day, like you're not getting any work, you know? But I just kept pushing, you know, and just trying to trying to get on his team and and meet the right people and you know, but yeah, I I found it a little bit hard to get in, but once I was in, we were working a lot, you know.

Dario05:15interesting. But I guess this was back in LA, right? Not in not in Vegas?

Michael05:19Correct. This was LA. Yeah. LA was for about a year and a half.

Dario05:23So then w like when you came back to Vegas, you you started your own thing, your own y you started Cerious Productions then or were you still like freelancing and trying to get a foothold?

Michael05:36Sure, yeah. When I moved back to Vegas in twenty fifteen, I started Cerious Productions. I kind of I learned a lot in the year and a half I was out there and I was like, you know what? I'm sick of waiting two hours to go to work on a Monday morning, you know what I mean? Like I need to go back to Vegas where like traffic isn't as crazy, you know, and I thought with everything I learned, I could do this in Vegas, you know? And that's what I did. I moved back to Vegas, I started Cerious and you know, I started it because I just wanted a a company to kinda house what I was doing. I didn't really expect to build like a full video production company. You know, I always just expected I would just be a single camera guy just doing my thing under my LLC and kind of flying low. But now, you know, we've got like fifty contractors in our network that we're constantly contracting out and, you know, picking up different jobs and that kind of thing. But but yeah, it's been it's been a great journey.

Dario06:35Yeah, we pretty much started I guess around the same time. Cause we we graduated university around twenty fourteenish. And then we started the company like right then and there. Cause we started started by doing videos for the student groups that are uni. We were part of the business program. so it's cool to see we kind of start around the same time. I'm just wondering like to go from where you are where you were in twenty fifteen to having a network of like fifty people you're sending out and all these projects, like was it like a very like smooth process or did you did you w were there like was there like a moment that kinda like pushed you to that next level?

Michael07:16You know, it was a lot of spinning my wheels. You know, I was undercharging. I was just I was, you know, hurting myself more than I was helping because I wanted to be the nice guy. I wanted to be the guy that everyone liked, you know? and just you know, I it it took me a long time to realize that, you know, one, you gotta be confident in your pricing and your work. And two, you just you gotta know that, you know Not everyone is gonna have the right budget and and there are people who do, you know. so th for the ten people that are gonna say no to you and think that your your prices are too high, the one client is gonna say yes, which cancels out the other ten, you know?

Dario08:00Yeah, I I d I do completely agree with you. I do know though, however, that, you know, sometimes like let's say for example, there's like ten leads you're talking to and yeah, if you're lowballing yourself or you're undercharging, you will get most of those, let's say, for example. But once you start to hold to, you know, higher prices and everything, like if those those leads do drop from like, you know, eight out of ten to like three or four, some people might freak out in those situations and go back to their old ways. how did you kind of avoid doing that?

Michael08:34you know, honestly, it was just not looking back, you know. it was like a moment of you know, like we we need to make this leap, we need to be a bigger company, we need to fake it till we make it, you know what mean? you know, like I got bills to pay, you know. I've got a two year old, you know, I can't fail, you know, my wife or or or my kid, you know. so really it just comes down to having to be confident in your pricing and your work, you know. And know that the people who are gonna pay for your your your work are, you know, they're gonna benefit because in the end it's good.

Dario09:15Yeah, you gotta you gotta just be confident at a certain point and just go like, Hey, th w I have to test it out at least, just to see, you know. You can't do something for a week and then say, it didn't work. You gotta at least try it for a few months and then and then after that kind of regroup and go, Okay, this worked, that didn't.

Michael09:32One hundred percent.

Dario09:35so how big is your team right now?

Michael09:38Sure. So I myself am the CEO and founder. I have an editor that's full time and I have a a virtual assistant, John, who works from Belize, who is full time. And then our network is you know, I believe fifty three to fifty five contractors.

Dario09:56okay, okay. So yeah, you just you're you're like a lot of us, then you just crew up and down based on on the project, right? Yeah.

Michael10:04Yeah, yeah. you know, fortunately we we've been really busy, you know, the last three years. but still the fact that having, you know, people on like salary, it's a little bit harder p to predict, you know, who you'll need. And so by having just contractors in a network, one, they're not working a job, you know, and and two, you just call them when you need them, you know. And I've got my select, you know, fifteen to twenty people that I'm like, these guys I can always count on, you know, these guys know what they're doing and they're usually working the majority of the time.

Dario10:39Yeah, we've we've had that conversation many times and like our industry is like so unpredictable sometimes that you know, I like hiring employees is just like a a numbers decision anyways. You just gotta look at the numbers and if it makes sense then you can do it. If not, you don't. but yeah, that uncertainty always freaks me out a little bit too. Like 'cause you just don't know. I mean, luckily we're here where we are because some somehow something always comes in. like I started October well, September we didn't really have much for October. And then by the time we got to the end of September, like our October was filled. It just somehow it just happens, which is great. but again, could also be there could also be nothing, right? So it's that that decision always freaks me out 'cause like hiring employees, you really gotta know what you get what's coming in or have enough stocked up to kinda like pull you through to that. but yeah, so that that me we've spoken with a lot of guests and a lot of people seem to be like be very similar to us where it's like maybe three people, three or five people at most, and then everything else is is outsourced, right?

Michael11:52Yeah, absolutely. And I think one of the things that really helps is when you have like retainer clients and you know you have guaranteed income. the majority of our business is, you know, clients who come back to us every year for trade shows. So like we can kind of predict what it's gonna look like. but we have a lot of new business that comes in too and people who use us, you know, as one offs who aren't coming every year to trade shows.

Dario12:17Yeah, like I I think what you guys are doing, especially with a lot of trade show work events, that's probably one of like the safer industries to like target because it happens every year, right? If I create a promotional video for a company, especially if you make a good an Evergreen, like that'll hold them for another for a couple of years at the very least, right? Until they need another piece of like corporate video that they the they need to implement in their business. But events they do them every year. So once you're in and they like you, unless you screw up, like they'll just come back, right? Or unless there's like personnel change, but

Michael12:55One hundred percent. and you know, when I moved back to Vegas, I had a full time job, you know, that way I could build the business as I go. And in March twenty twenty I said, you know what? You know, I've got enough, you know, clients that are coming back every month. Let me let me quit the full time job. Let's let's just let's do this. I did that and COVID hit. In fact, we were doing CONEXPO in twenty twenty and the last day of the show they wound up canceling because, you know Everyone was having a quarantine and and you know, couldn't socialize. And so it was it got a little scary. But we made it through COVID, you know, we were doing a lot of social content and a lot of our clients whose businesses they couldn't have people in I I kinda sat them down. I'm like, look, this is the time to to do content. This is the time to to build your library up. While you can't be servicing your customers, we need to start, you know, gathering your resources and and creating content so that you when things open back up, you guys are ready to go. And and that's what we did.

Dario13:58Funny, I just said like a minute ago, yeah, you went into a very safe industry, like doing events and I totally forgot about the pandemic. I was like my god.

Michael14:09That's what reminded me.

Dario14:10Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I we had the same issue here as well, and we weren't even that that much focused on events, but we they closed the whole province down here, so we had we had no work. and we weren't smart enough at the time to think about different types of videos we could create. Like I like some companies that we've had on the podcast told us how when it hit here they started pivoting to like animation videos or online online videos. I'm like, damn, I should have thought about that like in March twenty twenty.

Michael14:43Yeah. I was like, all right, well we gotta figure out a way.

Dario14:47Yeah, yeah. how was it yeah, how was it over there, like when that happened? 'Cause I'm assuming majority of production companies there focus on events, right? Like it lo Vegas is a very events based I'm I'm guessing it's very events focused 'cause there's a lot of trade like venues where people do trade shows and all that stuff.

Michael15:04Yeah, it's it's big time for for that. I mean, there's like, you know, five thousand restaurants here too, so everyone needs content. There's tons of businesses and now the sports teams, I there's just so much diverse content that's being created. But yeah, absolutely. I mean, events is is huge. And, you know, when companies come out to do trade shows, they're bringing a lot of their C level execs and they're bringing all their employees or most of them, and it's a great time to to do content. You know, it's a great time to if you got everyone together is is create those testimonial interviews and and whatnot. So yeah.

Dario15:38Right. Yeah, so then you can that's right, 'cause you can create more pieces of content. yeah, yeah, I forgot about that. Yeah. That's that's great then. w how how is it like there in terms of like competition with other production companies? Do you find that there's like a few players that a few big players that control like get that get most of the business or is it like a lot of small smaller shops that is or is it like spread out? Like how's how's it work over there?

Michael16:08Yeah, you know what, honestly, I think there's enough business here that I don't think it's really like cutthroat competition, you know? there's a lot of great production companies out here and I feel like everyone's kind of in their own lane. I don't think we're stepping on each other's toes. you know, there's like probably five like companies I can think of off the top of my head. and then there's some small boutique companies and then there's a bunch of like, you know, social media creators and and freelance videographers. but I mean I I I welcome more production companies. I think there's enough money to be made here and I think we should all be working together versus like working against

Dario16:52Yeah, I agree as well. Like here in Toronto, for example, there's a ton of comp like a ton of production companies. even just when you go on Google and try to find other people, like there's a lot. When I was looking for Vegas guests, like I didn't find too many in the city, which which would like, you know, when you go on Google Maps and everything, I had to like really look and I'm like, Okay, it's about like twenty ish people, something like that. But with Toronto, there's like a lot of people, but There's also a lot of companies here. Like sometimes you drive through an industrial area and you're like, you know, if we were really good at sales, we could target each one of these companies over here, right? Because all of them at least need one type of video, right? so yeah, I've never understood that whole like trying to be like ultra competitive. It's like th there's enough work to go around at the end of the day, anyways. So Interesting. let's talk about Actually, l where w where would you say you're at now with your business?

Michael17:54I feel comfortable where I'm at and I I see there's a lot of growth that could be had. you know, we had a we had a small office for like a couple years and really it just turned into just more of a glorified storage unit because, you know, all of our shoots happen like on the strip or they happen at clients locations where you know, our our cyc wall was barely getting used and people weren't doing that much content. with us after COVID. You know, I mean that's it was perfect for COVID. So what I really wanna do is kind of focus on what we've been doing with the trade shows and whatnot, but I wanna open up another avenue and and open up kind of a warehouse type studio and kind of do larger brand commercials. at least that's that's where I see myself heading. You know, that way we're covering events and then starting getting to like brand commercials.

Dario18:57Interesting. Okay. Yeah at the

Michael18:59I think our previous the previous office was a little small for doing that type of thing. and

Dario19:04You're right.

Michael19:04I think we need a little bit of a better setup.

Dario19:09Got it. cool. let's talk about your website a little bit. I was complimenting you on it before the call before we started recording. it's exactly what I wanted to create with my website. Like I was checking it out before the call I'm like, This is nice, I like it, very colorful and everything. d have you used like AI to like fix it up and everything?

Michael19:35Yeah, so I've built my website with WordPress and I've been I've been doing all the maintenance with it for the longest time. But now with the way AI works, you know, you can have AI go in and just have it go through your Google Drive and find all like the best photos that are relevant to the pages that it's building and just it has sped up and give me my time back. But yes, I am very heavy into using AI. for my website. you know, it's it's also great for building like web apps. Like I've built a portal for our contractors where we create call sheets and they can invoice through it and I've just kinda really simplified, you know, our workflow for like the administrative side with AI.

Dario20:26Okay, tell me a little bit about the the portal you created, 'cause you're like the third person that's told me about a similar type of thing that they have for their freelancers and everything. So yeah, just just elaborate on it.

Michael20:38Yeah, you know, I sat back and I thought, you know, every month I'm paying for call sheet software, I'm paying for Frame.io, I'm paying, you know, QuickBooks for invoicing. and just it was just so many different things. And was like, I'm gonna build my own SaaS. I'm gonna build my own software. and I actually just finished building my CRM. So I canceled my HubSpot subscription and I'm saving a boatload of money. But yeah, I mean you know when clients are reviewing videos that we've edited, they're using our version of Frame.io. You know, we're they're using our software and the best part isn't saving money. Like that's cool now. You you're running a business, you're gonna spend money. But if my employee or if someone wants a feature, if I want a feature added, I can just go in there and five minutes later, ten minutes later It's added, you know? If something is just a little inconvenient, we can make changes on the fly and that is it it is I don't know, priceless. It's it's insane that we can do this and I'm loving it and it's fun.

Dario21:50Yeah, a lot of these SaaS companies are in trouble 'cause I I I've I I've been doing the same thing lately. We only use a few subscriptions at the end of the day. Like I think the one I don't I we can't get rid of is like music licensing subscriptions cause un until we start creating the songs ourselves, which, you know, you technically could do, but actually it's not a bad idea to start looking at that 'cause a lot of the corporate videos we create, like it's the songs aren't, you know whatever. It's not like Michael Bublé's song that you gotta like license, right? Type of thing. but yeah, like Frame.io is is one I was thinking about lately. So I might ask you, actually, how would that work with Frame.io? Okay, so let's say you sw you you you built your own version of Frame.io. How does that work?

Michael22:37So Vimeo is the back end, right? We're not gonna build

Dario22:39Okay.

Michael22:40like our own Vimeo. That would be insane with all their servers and whatnot. So yeah.

Dario22:43That's what I was wondering. Like, do you have to build your own Vimeo for that?

Michael22:46Everything with AI is just a wrapper, right? So like with Vimeo, we're still paying for Vimeo, and I don't have I have no plans on canceling that. but you know, we use our portal and they upload videos through the portal, which goes to Vimeo, and then once it's on Vimeo. You know, it plays through our player where clients can add notes and add the revisions and we can do version control. and you know, even when it comes down to them approving the video and if they've already paid their final payment, they get the option to download the video. And it's just like Vimeo where like you can choose which version you want to download, the original, ten eighty, four K, etcetera.

Dario23:35I see, okay. And then is it so did you have to create a new website for it? Is that how that works? or no?

Michael23:44Yeah, so so well here's the thing. I mean I'm using our Cerious domain and just doing a subdomain, which is gonna connect

Dario23:51Okay. I see, okay.

Michael23:54to our portal that we built with AI and then the back end is gonna be Vimeo.

Dario24:02I see, okay. Could you do it with like Google Drive instead of Vimeo?

Michael24:06Yeah. So you know, when we do photography and we have edits or edited photos or galleries, that same portal I built a a gallery. So if we upload photos for a client, I can send them a gallery link and it's just like any of those other gallery websites where like they can view photos, we can add custom logos in there for them and they can download, etcetera.

Dario24:35That's okay. I'm

Michael24:35And Google Drive is the back end for that.

Dario24:38okay. You know what? I might end up canceling my Pixieset subscription because I use that for delivering photos to clients and they got a little pricey lately. so with the

Michael24:49That's exactly what I did.

Dario24:51so with this okay, how's the subdomain work? So let's say for example, my domain is lapseproductions.com. You create like what would this let's say subdomain, the name for it actually what would the the form the name be for the subdomain?

Michael25:04Ours is just galleries, galleries.cerious.com. Right? And then for each individual gallery, there's you know

Dario25:10I see, okay. Yeah.

Michael25:12like the like the URL it adds, like a seven letter like URL at the end. Yeah. So it's still branded at the same time. Yeah, and it's it's branded.

Dario25:18I see, I see. Okay. interesting, interesting. Okay. Now now it's making sense. Yeah, yeah.

Michael25:26So when they're sending it out, it's still got the Cerious domain in it.

Dario25:29Right, right, okay. I guess another question I had is you linked it to your Vimeo. so when they click on the video, is there any lag at all or is it pretty smooth 'cause it's it's just playing the Vimeo link, right?

Michael25:45Yeah, it's just an embedded player. Like Vimeo has been good at embedded videos for how many years now? You know what I mean? So we're just embedding

Dario25:50Right. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Michael25:52it on our portal.

Dario25:55interesting. Okay. There's like there's two subscriptions I'm probably getting rid of before the end of the year. Frame.io and Pixieset then. I was wondering how you guys are doing it. I I kept forgetting to like sit down and and look into it. I figured I might as well ask you. Because I'm sure other people listening are probably interested as well. you know, I fun I saw a picture the other day which showed like the value of like Anthropic and then it showed right next to it like all like it w it was bigger than like all these other software companies and then people are like, it's it's overvalued. It's like, no, it's it's valued at at more than those companies 'cause it can replace all of those companies. That's why and and I mean we're seeing it at the at the business owner level where people like you and I are going like, Hey, I don't need Frame.io. I don't need Pixieset. I don't need this. I don't need that and we are cutting it out and you know I don't know how much you were paying for Frame.io. I think for us it's four hundred or something a year. But that's

Michael27:00Yeah.

Dario27:01four hundred less they're gonna get from one client, right? Which is it's not zero it's not ten dollars less, it's it's a lot and when you think about it, right? And people start doing this in droves, it really starts to affect things, right?

Michael27:13Yeah, one hundred percent. It's it's scary, you know, and and I I'm interested to see how it's gonna go.

Dario27:24Yeah.

Michael27:24For them.

Dario27:25Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, the and again with us creating all this stuff, I guess it does open the question of like, do you do you need to maintain the security of it? Or I guess cause it's you know, they there was that PHP issue, that security issue that happened earlier this week. I know our hosting provider fixed it at their level, so it was fine. But if you're creating all these apps and everything, do you need to go in and make sure it's It's good for that st like it there's no security loopholes or anything like that.

Michael27:58Yeah, you know what? That's just that is going to be the risk, you know. you gotta protect your API keys, you gotta make sure that you have security and just yeah, it's it's it's definitely gonna be a thing. I think we're gonna see a lot of issues w where AI is being used for for bad. And with that PHP issue, I think they were saying as soon as they patch it, you know, AI will be able to reverse engineer the patch in fifteen minutes, you know. it's yeah,

Dario28:26really?

Michael28:27I th it's It's kinda scary if you think about it.

Dario28:31It's crazy too 'cause now there's like rogue agents running around and God knows what they're doing. You said you also built an you built some apps as well. Did you talk about the apps you built? 'Cause I remember you mentioned there was a color temperature one.

Michael28:46Yeah, I built several apps. you know, I I basically I think it was like a year or two ago, probably a year ago, I just started messing with AI, like just and I would spend like four or five hours after work at night, baby was asleep, and just hammering away and just building different things and seeing what I can do. and I built a color temperature app called Kelvy. it's Free to use, you can do like five different you know captures a week, or you know it's like $2.99 a month to have unlimited captures. But basically, I built it for trade shows. You know, you go into like a trade show and you you've always got the worst lighting in casinos, you know, it's like twenty nine hundred Kelvin, just like this is hurting my eyes. And so when you're bouncing around between the different rooms, just to get like a quick You it's never gonna replace a light meter, not trying to do that. But I needed something that was quick where I could say, What's the what's the color temperature? You know, what's the Kelvin, what's the tint? and and that's what it does. And it's really helpful for me. And then I thought, you know what, if if I'm building this, let me throw it out in the app store and maybe we can make a little bit of money from it, maybe we can help some people. you know, with it being completely free, you know, it I'm hoping it's helping people. we've got like over a thousand users and

Dario30:08that's great.

Michael30:09Like yeah, yeah, it's it's it's it's been a lot of fun to build and it's fun seeing everyone using it.

Dario30:16How do you spell it at with a Y, Kelvy, at the end?

Michael30:19Yeah. K E L V Y Kelvy White Balance Meter.

Dario30:26I see it. Okay. nice, okay. That's pretty cool. Yeah, I'm gonna download it right now. Cause yeah at the

Michael30:33Yeah, it's good for scouting too.

Dario30:36Right, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, the conference we were doing earlier this week, that lighting sometimes you're like, Man, what is this? Like their skin is blue. How do I fix this?

Michael30:46And it's there's so much mixed lighting too, it's just wild.

Dario30:50Yeah. what was was it hard to submit your app to the app store?

Michael30:58I'm gonna say this. Nothing is hard with AI because instead of me submitting it, you know, I'm basically using AI just to walk me through it. Like what do I need? If I didn't have AI, the steps to get an app approved by Apple are just insane. You know? But if you have AI, just look look it over and just, you know, give you the information as if you're a

Dario31:19Yeah.

Michael31:20child, you know, just hey, explain this to explain this to me as if I like five years old and it just lines

Dario31:24Yeah, yeah.

Michael31:25everything up. but no, with AI no, it was super easy.

Dario31:31Nice, okay. I d I d this is this is from my own curiosity because I I eventually want to build an app too. I don't know about what yet. it's the that's the thing with AI. You realize like the world is your oyster, but then you're like, okay, I gotta think of an idea to then implement and create, right? So but I'm just curious, like, how did you create the app itself? Like I know you can code it and everything, just just so the people listening are curious, right? Like how's that how's that work?

Michael31:59Yeah, for sure. My evolution has always it started with Lovable because it's just it's an app builder, right? And then I used Rork, r-o-r-k dot com. but now with everything I just use Claude. Claude Code and Claude and Claude Cowork. you know, I and and and also Codex. I think Codex is probably my main stay. that's where I do the majority but between those two, I just build right there. I was paying a l I was paying almost a thousand dollars in like app building subscription fees just learning and now I just have the Codex Max Pro Plan and then the Claude Pro Plan. and I just use those to to build.

Dario32:50Interesting. Okay. Yeah, I w I was just curious because I've I've heard of other people

Michael32:54Yeah.

Dario32:54building their apps, but I haven't like dug deep into it yet. I find most of the time I just use chat. I did give it access to to my computer though, so now it's easier. You can actually go in and do stuff and everything. So it's become a lot easier than me like, you know, having to do stuff manually. Sometimes I still get scared, though, so I make a lot of backups just in case. I've heard of I've seen Reddit posts where it just you know, it goes a little crazy, deletes files it shouldn't. So but it's been pretty good so far.

Michael33:27Yeah, one hundred percent. You just gotta be careful with that, for sure.

Dario33:32let's see, what else what else do we need to talk about here? What about SEO? Like yeah, how did you 'cause you I I found you I think on one of the first pages. So what was your SEO journey like and how have you kind of like updated it for today's world?

Michael33:57Sure. I've always been hands-on with my website and I've always done all of the SEO work. there's been times where I've hired people off of Fiverr, you know, just to do like some local map stuff for me. but i it's been a labor of love. a lot of changing, a lot of trial and error. and now I'm at the point where I use AI to kinda double check my work. I use AI to kind of help me stay competitive. and really it's just building out those additional web pages on the website that are very niche that are helping. And so that you know, using AI for that has been a blessing. It's been amazing.

Dario34:43Mm-hmm. Yeah, I noticed I've had quite I had quite a few clients that actually found us through AI. Like they they would just ask like, we need top product companies or like what's the pricing like and then our our company would come up and yeah, like I think nowadays it's it's really like through AI and then maybe Google Maps, right? 'cause even when you go on Google now and you might say, I need this, it might just show you like the overview, like the summary and then no if you're lucky you get mention in that and then yeah. But I

Michael35:22Yeah.

Dario35:23think it's sorry, go ahead.

Michael35:25I was gonna say, you with SEO there's now AEO. You know, it's it's getting

Dario35:29A yeah.

Michael35:30your websites known by chatbots. And so

Dario35:33Yeah.

Michael35:34that's just a whole nother world.

Dario35:37Yeah. and yeah, yeah. I d I I wonder how it's gonna be in the future though, because like it's great that now we have a tool that helps us do all this stuff that we were insufficient in before. But I mean, anyone can access that same tool and now you're competing with someone else who's using the exact same stuff to get to the exact same goal you're doing. So I guess it's If we wanna be ahead of the curve, we gotta kinda think of like other strategies because like new generations, for example, they're growing up with these tools. So they'll if they want to start a video production company, the website's gonna be the least of their worries, right? They just need to get some some clips to put on it and then the AI will help them create it and make it SEO optimized, AIO optimized. So trying to find that differentiator. is gonna be pretty interesting in the future, right? It's something I guess we would need to start to think about now, right?

Michael36:36I mean, it's kinda like when Canon dropped like the 7D and like everyone was able to buy a camera. You know, it was no longer like, you know, companies who can afford cameras were doing all the video production. Now everyone's got a camera in their hands, right? So I

Dario36:51Mm-hmm.

Michael36:51mean the market is definitely competitive in that realm and I think it's gonna translate to the same thing with AI. Some people will just do it better, you know, some people will will have, you know, what it takes to to be the bigger company and have the better pages. it's just it's it's you know, it's a it's a nice competitive market.

Dario37:11Mm-hmm. And you know, competitive markets always result in better products at the end of the day anyways, 'cause people gotta think they gotta be a step above the other guy, right? So yeah, it'll be interesting to see how things turn out.

Michael37:25Yeah, and the thing with us is like we we're we're not trying to be like the standard production company. We want to be that partner that businesses wanna work with. You know what mean? I think even on our our website I've got this tagline that just says, Your boss is gonna love us, you know? And I put that

Dario37:43Yeah.

Michael37:43there because we hear it a lot. Like our boss loves working with you guys, you know, we're the team is really happy, you know? And we're just trying to be that partner that people wanna work with.

Dario37:56Yeah, I I saw another one on your on your website, S serious about the work? fun to fun to be around, one of those. Yeah, that's that's good. I find that y

Michael38:06It took me a long time sorry, go ahead.

Dario38:09No, no, you go, go.

Michael38:11I was gonna say it it took me a long time to like really play into the whole serious thing, you know. I I I use a lot of fun copy now because I know that's what people like and I know that from working with people, you know, and I get a lot of compliments on the website for that kind of stuff, so I'm trying to play pretty heavy into it now.

Dario38:32Yeah. It gives a personality as well, right?

Michael38:35Yes. One hundred percent.

Dario38:37Yeah, I find that a lot of the times like you just yeah, they need a I mean, people don't want to work with people that are too serious. but and and yeah, like I mean I I know someone that's like way I I know f few people that are way too serious about the work and like they come off as like very like you you could tell the client doesn't like that, right? So I've I've seen it actually negatively impact them because yeah, okay, great. Visuals are fantastic. You did a like the editor's gonna love this. But like I mean, it wasn't a good experience for the client. A lot of times, like you just need to sell the experience to the client. The work doesn't need to be magnificent. Needs to be good, but not magnificent, but the experience needs to be magnificent, you know?

Michael39:27That's exactly it. One hundred percent. Yep.

Dario39:30Yeah. I think I'm good on my end. Do you have anything else you want us to cover? I guess we t you you mentioned retainers at one point, I think earlier on in in the conversation. do you do you have experience with retainers? Do you do a lot of those or?

Michael39:48You know what we don't. we have a couple clients that we we work with every month and really happy with that. but I think, you know, the majority of our work is just kind of like the trade show stuff and it keeps us really busy.

Dario40:05Mm-hmm.

Michael40:06I do think as we grow, having more retainers will allow us to kind of like bring on some more full time people and kind of like scale up a little bit. but for right now we just have a couple and it's it's great the way it is.

Dario40:24Hm. Okay. we're we're in the same boat as well. Like I've I I actually know very few people that are able to get retainers off the ground and usually it's like in very specific circumstances. actually but another guest that that I just that I posted from Vegas actually. He's in he's he's your neighbor. He does some retainer work, but it's for like restaurants or coffee shops, which would that's the only time it really makes sense to me, 'cause it's like it would probably be like, you know, not it it's i I mean, they always need stuff every month, right? 'Cause menus change or they need to promote they're they're very, very heavy on promoting on social, so that makes a lot of sense. but for for other people, I think might to bring on a production company might not be financially feasible unless they like really wanna pump a lot into it. But that's what I find like retainers, I don't know, it's very tricky, tricky beast to master, you know? Great if you're able to do it, but

Michael41:20For sure. Yeah, and the thing is where it really works is if you have a client who you just work a lot with, you know what I mean? And you know, they're spending a lot of money with you and a lot of time, it makes sense to sit down and say, Hey, look, let's figure out a way to make this work where we're we're working consistently. you're saving a couple bucks where you're not having to pay us, you know, our normal fee, and we just lock this in so that, you know w you know you're gonna get content and then we know that we're gonna have you know an okay month. You know what I mean?

Dario41:54Mm-hmm.

Michael41:55and so I I think that's where it makes the most sense. Trying to find a retainer off the bat isn't gonna work. You can't just go to a restaurant say, Hey, we should work together every month. They're gonna be like we d we don't know what you guys do, you know? so if you have a client that you do a lot of consistent work with, that's who you want to sit down and talk to.

Dario42:14Yeah, and and w which again goes back to what I was saying. It's it's only very specific circumstances. You've worked with this client for years, they know your workflow. And I guess at that point the the way it makes sense to present it in that case is if you're starting to get too busy with other stuff and you're like, Okay, this buys you exclusivity essentially. Or like you know you're getting me for sure. 'Cause otherwise, you know. Yeah.

Michael42:40One thousand percent. Yeah. And the thing is, like, you need to know that you like working with that client that much too. You know what I mean? It's not just

Dario42:48Mm-hmm.

Michael42:48the client saying, Yes, we wanna work with you every month. Do you wanna work with that client? You know, so you just gotta be able to choose your clients wisely in that respect.

Dario42:57Yeah. And you know, sometimes lack of retainer also gives you that freedom that, you know, if you don't or if things get a little hairy, you're like, we can always cut this off. We don't need to continue, right? Whereas with a retainer you're kinda locked in. I I wonder if like people are always searching for that w for this unicorn because it's like something from like agencies, right? 'Cause that's really an agency thing where they get the retainer, and we're just trying to apply it to an industry where it doesn't really make The most sense to do, right? I wonder if that's why.

Michael43:32Yeah, I think there's a lot of There's a lot of plays there. you know, it it just it depends on how much content they really need and, you know, if where they're putting it. You know, are they posting something every week? Are they posting something, you know, every month? You know, you it just needs to make sense.

Dario43:53Mm. Yeah. All right. I think I'm I'm good on my end. Anything else you wanna chat about, Mike?

Michael44:02I think I'm all set.

Dario44:06for those that maybe don't know why you named the company Cerious Productions, I know. But do you want to tell them why?

Michael44:21Hey, sorry, I lost you for a second.

Dario44:24sorry, do you want do you wanna tell our guests why you named the your company Cerious Productions?

Michael44:30You know what? long story short, I was very young. My friends and I had a company called Cerious Entertainment. We went to parties and we DJed and our tagline was when it comes to parties, it's time to get serious. It was dumb. But when it came to me deciding on creating a company and and going full force, I like, you know what? I'm gonna I'm gonna bring it back out and I thought Cerious Productions would be an awesome name and I'm loving it. And now I I think I'm gonna drop the productions and just call it Cerious.

Dario45:05Nice. Okay, I like it. We always ask all of our guests that we're like, How did you come up with the name? 'Cause everyone's got like really they they got interesting stories about how they came up with the name.

Michael45:17Yeah, I just wanted something different, you know, something that was out of the ordinary.

Dario45:22Yeah. All right. So to our listeners, if you're trying to find Michael, go to cerious.com, but it's Cerious with a C, not with an S.

Michael45:33With a C. That's right.

Dario45:36and then your socials, I'm trying to pull them up here. I don't see them on your website.

Michael45:43So for Instagram it's just Cerious Productions.

Dario45:48With a C.

Michael45:50Yep, where the C.

Dario45:52You gotta you gotta tell Claude to to add it to your email to your footer.

Michael45:57Yeah, you know what, Claude, come on now. You're messing up.

Dario46:02but yeah. Anyways, Michael, thank you for coming on. It's been good chat.

Michael46:06Thank you for having me. This has been great. Thank you.