Referrals, Review Campaigns, and One Retainer Client (ft. BT Studio)

This transcript was generated automatically from the recording and lightly edited for readability, so it may contain errors. The audio and video are the authoritative record. Spot a mistake? Email dario@creativesgrabcoffee.com. For chapter deep-links into the video, use the Timestamps section above.

Dario NouriCo-host, Creatives Grab Coffee00:00Hi everyone, welcome to another episode of Creatives Grab Coffee. Today I have with me Doug Thomsen from BT Studio, who is based out of San Francisco, our first guest from San Francisco.

Doug ThomsenOwner and Creative Director, BT Studio00:11Nice. Hey, thanks for having me, Dario. Really appreciate it. Happy to represent the Bay Area for the first time on the show and looking forward to talking with you.

Dario00:17Yeah. Likewise. Okay. So let's start with a little bit of a history lesson. Tell me a little bit about how you got into video and how you started BT.

Doug00:29Sure. I guess it would maybe go back to like seventh grade, which is how old I was when iMovie came out, dating myself right off the bat.

Dario00:39Mm-hmm.

Doug00:39but that was like the first time, you know, anyone at kind of a consumer level could could edit video at home. maybe some viewers will know of something that was out sooner, but that's when I started. So that's kind of how it began was more on the editing side. Like yeah, we had to film s we had to shoot stuff to to edit, but it was kind of just whatever was happening, right? Filming my brother or whatever. and that continued all the way through high school and and eventually I saved up and bought Final Cut three in high school. and then I was kind of making this decision like film school, no film school. I decided to go with something more practical, which was studying advertising in college. and that was great. Started that as my career and did that for about six years and you know really got to learn from from great creatives and creative directors. but eventually kind of that bug kept, you know, was always in the back of my mind that that I wanted to make movies or or do something in the filmmaking world. and I figured, you know, this it's never gonna happen unless I start working on this every day in some capacity. so I bought a DSLR, started shooting and and kind of building up a little bit of a reel that I could show people. and then eventually just quit and had my I quit on a fr my my last day was on a Friday. Shot my first project on a Sunday for a friend for almost nothing and let's see, that was two thousand fourteen, so twelve years later, here we are.

Dario02:15what year did you start BT?

Doug02:17so I 2014 is when I left my last agency job. Started BT in two thousand fifteen with a partner named Adam Behrmann. Shout out to Adam. He's now producer for tech companies in New York, no longer involved with the business, but BT is Behrmann, his last name, Thomsen my last name. And so once once he transitioned out, then just it was easier to to keep the name because the URL was already that and so here we are.

Dario02:46Okay, nice. Yeah, we we started around the same time as you. Like we did twenty we started twenty fourteen, fifteen ish. So yeah, interesting.

Doug02:53Nice. Yes, November November twenty fifteen for us.

Dario02:57We we did it in March, like legally, but then we didn't officially

Doug02:59Okay. Yeah.

Dario03:02launch it till September. So we always tell people whenever it hits September, but anyways a little cool little history lesson. Yeah,

Doug03:06Nice. Yeah, stealth mode.

Dario03:10yeah. yeah, I remember I j I just remember the conversation we were having in our pre interview where you you named it the full last name, but and I was I remember

Doug03:18Yes.

Dario03:19telling you it sounded like a law firm almost, right?

Doug03:21Sounded like a law firm. Yeah, yeah. We were kinda going for, you know, the agency-ish vibe, like you know, where the big agencies I'm blanking, but a lot of like could be Silverstein or, you know, 'cause we wanted it we wanted people to think of us as a option for creative too, not just production. and it you know, I think that that did work and that is a part of what we do. but that was the decision behind the last names.

Dario03:50So you had a partner and then they ended up leaving. it d I've I've heard I've I'm starting to hear quite often like, yeah, there's a partner for a little bit then leaves. Like like so what happened

Doug03:59Yeah.

Dario04:00like when he left? Like was cause I I can't imagine Kyrill and I separating like how difficult like it w it

Doug04:07Mm-hmm.

Dario04:08would be a little bit difficult. I'm just wondering like how was that

Doug04:10Right.

Dario04:10transition process for you?

Doug04:13It i in one sense it was difficult 'cause i it's a creative marriage of of us in a sense, a business, you know, relationship. but w What was particularly unique for us was or maybe not that unique was it was during COVID. So you know, i the outlook for work was like not great at that time. So it everyone was kind of just like figuring out a way to land on their feet. And you know, because there was so little work going around, like him transitioning out, taking a full-time job. did make it a little bit easier because there was enough work to sustain for, you know, just me basically at that time. and then he had his plan. So it was a ironically made it a little bit easier. COVID made that a little bit easier for us. but you know on the all the other other side of it, like we just remained, you know, remained friendly, remained cordial and and just tried to be professional about it. So it wasn't too bad.

Dario05:24Yeah, that's interesting. Cause yeah, if the the that pro that time period would have made it easy because yeah, there's no work coming in. I I guess you guys had a similar situation

Doug05:31Right.

Dario05:32to us then, 'cause I don't know how it was in in in California, but here in Ontario or province, they they really locked down. So we you know, at the time I you know, talking with people afterwards, like when we started this podcast, people were pivoting themselves towards like maybe like more animation or whatever. We didn't we didn't have the foresight to think about that. So we were suffering a lot too. Ac actually now that you mention it, we were kind of in a spot where like if we both went our own ways at that time period, I don't think it would have been a big deal, now that I think about it, because there wasn't any work.

Doug06:07yeah, c yeah, ever it kinda just changed the game, right? Ever it was a bit of a reset and and that was true I think for people all the way across across all industries. Is you know, i there's so many people in this area work in tech and they were kind of the f earliest and to adopt remote work. I I think, you know, t you're basically just working on your laptop. You know, they were already had a lot of the technology and Zoom was already being used to some degree and so yeah. It there was the the lockdowns were quite strict here and people did definitely disperse and go live in the mountains or, you know, whatever they were gonna do. But yeah, super unique time that I think obviously accelerated a lot of the tools and ways that we all work now. So

Dario06:56Yeah, and and I guess on your end, how did you I mean, we we've had this conversation many times, like asking people they c how they kinda like navigated that that COVID situation. I'm I'm just curious with you, like how did you kind of I I mean, like still keep the business, right? 'Cause if like one guy's leaving and then you you're also not getting

Doug07:15Yeah.

Dario07:16enough work, it's pretty easy to say, Okay, well I'm maybe I should go find a full time job too, right?

Doug07:20Right, right. so as you kind of referenced, there wa an uptick in animation work. and luckily, you know, we had d I we I had done enough of that that was able to make that work, but it that certainly wasn't enough to to sustain. One thing that that I did, which was I'm so grateful for the timing of this, was I had been talking to a writer, a a writer-producer, an Armenian guy named Armen Dilanchian, who lived he doesn't live here anymore but lived nearby, about making a feature film. He had written this cool script about loosely based on his experience of moving to the United States and and kind of looking for a better life after this really terrible earthquake they had in Armenia. And he and his brother decided to fund the movie themselves and you know it was a super indie project and it wasn't full day rates for anyone, but for that time, you know, it was some income for the crew and and a little bit for the cast. And we all just were able to we were outdoors mostly, luckily, and all that, so it was a great time to invest in in ourselves, basically, right? That it was the DP's first feature, it was my first feature, and that was true for a lot of the actors as well. so that was a a really cool opportunity that came around and kept us busy, but also provided a little bit of of income.

Dario08:56What was the what's the name of it? Is it is it out?

Doug08:57Yeah. Yeah, it's out it's called it's called Pride Jewel. you can see it on Amazon, Apple TV, the the rental side of Apple TV. and I think Tubi as well. But yeah, it's out there, it's it's still available and it it got released in early twenty two, I believe. So yeah.

Dario09:20Interesting. Yeah, like quite quite a few of the American companies I've had on the show have done like their own like documentary or like feature and whatever and it's kinda interesting to see. Like from my end, I'm just curious, like were you just involved on like the the production aspect of it or were you involved also in like the district like this I guess selling and distribution or I don't know how that stuff works.

Doug09:44Mm. Yeah, not I was not really involved in the distribution part of it. we just so I directed and edited it and then, you know, just we B T Studio kind of the the production company, so either myself or or whoever was helping me at the time put out the final deliverables. So that part of the distribution, yes, but not the selling. and it was it was it was essentially self distributed. I think he I think he did have someone that wa like a company that was that was kind of coordinating that and choosing the best platforms. But, you know, i it's it's not like they weren't putting P and A budget into it or anything like that.

Dario10:30Okay, interesting. Okay, cool. So you you had that to kinda coast you over and then I'm guessing things opened up and then floodgates opened, right?

Doug10:38Right. Slowly but surely. Yeah, yeah. Twenty twenty two and twenty three were both fairly slow, but then twenty four or twenty five and twenty six so far have been very consistently busy. So luckily things eventually did come back. Yeah.

Dario10:55So on that front then, like have you made certain changes to your business to kind of prevent like let's say, you know, God forbid, another pandemic in the future, or I guess we're in another crisis right now, right? So like have you kinda like w what what kind of things did you did you or have you implemented in your business to kind of like help you in crisis times?

Doug11:19Yeah. so I think the biggest thing would be one relatively large retainer client. you know, I I working for agencies, I definitely saw the downside of that too, because six weeks into my first job in an agency they lost their biggest retainer client, which is like half of the the company's income. and so I'm always wary not to get too dependent on one client. so it but it's it's a nice kind of base from which to start with with one client. and then from there it's just diversification, I think. trying to you know, it might be easy to kind of take that one retainer relationship, have three, four, five other kind of consistent clients that are project based and just go with that. but I make it a point to, you know try to to work with new clients and not not kind of move past leads too quickly, kind of suss things out and and see if there's a good opportunity there for that exact reason, right? 'Cause if you've if you've got thirty clients that are, you know, some of them are only coming around once a year, you know, eventually one or two of those are gonna turn into something bigger, maybe right when you need it. the other thing, I mean, is this is just basic, this is obvious, but it's just trying to keep more of a financial buffer. obviously it's easier said than done, but that would be the other thing I think.

Dario13:00Yeah, we that that's something I've been thinking about lately as well, just trying to see like what what can we do 'cause I I guess now we are entering another crisis moment, right? Like with the

Doug13:11Yeah.

Dario13:12the war in Iran and God knows what's happening with the rates. you just don't know where it's gonna go, right? Yeah, AI too.

Doug13:17Yeah. AI. Yeah.

Dario13:21I feel like that's not really gonna be too much of an issue for us. Like the whole AI thing. It felt like it in like twenty three, but now

Doug13:27I'm

Dario13:30I don't know.

Doug13:30Right. Yeah, I'm I'm pretty bullish, not about the use of AI in our industry necessarily, but the fact that AI is not going to kill what we do. So so sounds like we're probably aligned on our thinking on that, but yeah.

Dario13:48I I honestly like I think it's it's just gonna get too expensive to do to that at that point. So if it's too

Doug13:54Yeah.

Dario13:54expensive, like I think they'll just pick and choose. It's like, well, it'll cost this many tokens versus this many dollars.

Doug14:01Right. Right. Yeah. And then, you know, the thing that I still haven't seen done extr very, very well in AI is the refinement. You know, when you do like a important shoot you know, the clients there are going like, this purple pillow or that purple pillow in the background?

Dario14:24Mm-hmm.

Doug14:24You know, this top or that top. How do we want their hair? Like there's all these things that when you work with AI, it's just you're just kind of getting what you get and you can put in a million references and try to have it do exactly what you and sometimes that works. but Yeah, until you can really just go like change that thing right there to this thing

Dario14:47Yeah.

Doug14:47right here, but keep everything else the same, it's gonna be hard to I think use it in in crucial projects. Yeah.

Dario14:56Well you said refinement. I to date I haven't seen AI video that's tricked me yet. You know, but good video.

Doug15:01Mm.

Dario15:02Not like they make it look like it it's shot on a potato camera. So you kinda like say

Doug15:06Yeah.

Dario15:06you okay if you like squint like you kinda can't see a type of thing. I haven't

Doug15:09Right, right.

Dario15:10seen something that can pass by for like a replacement yet. Right? So that's the other thing.

Doug15:14Yeah. I so that's an interesting thing. Like I feel like I have seen that, but it's usually when I'm on my phone and the image is very small. So, you know, I haven't really t I haven't very often like taken that, put it on a computer and watched it again. The other thing I think is that's happening is the the better the AI stuff looks, the more likely it is that it was given like a very, very specific reference to copy. And it this is just like, make it exactly like this. and that's obviously gets into tricky legal territory when if you're a brand and you're like, is this too similar to this thing? You know, it it's very tough. So I yeah.

Dario15:58And and then the audio too. There's always something about the audio. When I listen to it, I'm like, that sounds off. Like it's not even I'm less actively trying to hear it. Like sometimes like my girl will watch stuff on Facebook and Facebook tends to have way longer videos, right? And I'll just hear something

Doug16:11Yeah.

Dario16:12and I'm like, That doesn't sound right. Like it it it almost pass, but I'm like, no, something about like the cadence is off or it's like too flat. but but yeah.

Doug16:19Yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, there's that and then it you know, how many people out in the world like that who don't do what we do, how many people will notice that or or care? You know, I do think for a brand that wants to create some a like a premium piece that they're proud to share, there's a lot of value in in having that done by humans because you'll avoid those little moments that you're talking about. But I also think there's so much kind of just very basic promotional stuff out there that w where what you're describing maybe isn't the end of the world. You're just trying to get a simple message across, you know, like

Dario17:01Yeah.

Doug17:03two dollars off on Tuesday. It's like, okay. That's not that's not

Dario17:06Mm-hmm.

Doug17:07like a great creative endeavor, that needs the

Dario17:10Yeah.

Doug17:10human touch. So but I think for the premium stuff

Dario17:13But yeah, I mean it's I don't think it's gonna replace us. I think if anything, it's just like we've I've mentioned it many times. I think it's just gonna be an extra tool we can use. Like again, when Photoshop came

Doug17:23Yeah.

Dario17:23out, yeah, now you got you can change everything, right? But

Doug17:26Right.

Dario17:27I mean you still gotta know how to use it. It's it's a complicated tool at the end of the day. Same with the new video AI tools that'll come out, it's like, yeah, great. It's great for

Doug17:35Yeah.

Dario17:35us, not for you as the client. Like you don't know, like is it's just stuff that's behind the scenes type of thing.

Doug17:40Right, right, right. Yeah.

Dario17:43Well, you mentioned you you you kinda focused more on like referrals. a lot of people have trouble getting referrals. I'm just curious like wha what did you do to kind of make that your main your main your main flow, I guess, whatever you want to call it.

Doug17:57yeah, just I would say like a an absolute dedication to making sure that the client is happy and that you've they can feel that you've gone the extra mile on their project. so the way that that ends up ha you know, the way that looks in real life is like when we scope out a project and sign a contract with a client, it's for X dollars and at that point like I'm I I'm not tracking or caring about my hours. Like I'm just all in to try to make this thing good. Of course, there's a scope of work. I mean, if we agree to a s you know, a 30-second spot, we're not gonna make two 30-second spots. but you know, basically not sweating the small stuff and just going after it, trying to make something as good as it can be, because that comes through in your communication and and the whole experience of making it, and it will also, I think, show up in the End product. now that doesn't just mean doing whatever the client wants or asks, because sometimes you know that they won't be happy with that in the end. So you making sure they're happy is like a bigger picture thing than simply just saying yes all the time, I think. but yeah, basically just trying to do a really good job, make sure people are happy and trusting that. you know, this one person, maybe they don't recommend you today, maybe not tomorrow, but a couple of years from now they move to a new job. that was you know, I remember working with BT Studio, that was great, let me call them in. and maybe that maybe that only happens for twenty five percent of clients, but that's enough. Yeah.

Dario19:45But but for retainer clients, like do you okay. It you were talking about retainers and clients. I thought you got retainers. Is d did you get retainers or you're just retaining the same clients? Like what

Doug19:55I have we have one retainer client, the clo one client that pays us a retainer. Mm.

Dario19:59okay, okay. I thought you focused more on getting r retainers with clients. Okay, okay. Sorry, sorry.

Doug20:06No worries. Yeah, no, sorry, I was talking about referrals. that that whole thing that I just said was about try

Dario20:12Yeah.

Doug20:13just making sure clients refer you to their their friends or their next job or whatever. Yeah.

Dario20:18Okay, okay, okay. so you just have one referral client, sorry retainer client client. okay.

Doug20:25Retainer client. Yeah, yeah.

Dario20:28what kind of retainer is it? Is it just like every year you kind of like for us, for example, we have one client that every year I know they do three webinars on one AGM, for example, right?

Doug20:36Mm-hmm.

Dario20:36So every year we get the same thing. Technically

Doug20:38Yeah.

Dario20:39not retainer, but like yes in a way, right? But I

Doug20:42Right.

Dario20:42think what people mean retainer, they mean like, you know, three, six Nine, twelve month contract where every month you're

Doug20:49Right.

Dario20:50have have you tried those types of projects? Have you had any success in the past? Or is it something just like don't bother with?

Doug20:55Yeah, for the most part I don't go after that because I I mean of course it's the recurring revenues great, it's great. But those things can become your whole world, right? You become so financially and mentally dependent on it that you sacrifice, you know, your working with new clients, different types of projects, your own creative passion projects, right? It all sort of starts revolving around these super crucial retainer clients. And so it's that's why we have one is because there is the benefit to it. And it's a person that I've the the the person that we work with that I that that client is someone I've worked with for over 10 years. There's a lot of like trust there. And so they don't do the same projects every quarter. It's just a certain a certain amount every quarter of dollars. And then we figure out what projects we're gonna do within that and I you know for each one of those we're like scoping it out like we would any other project, figuring out okay, what does that cost? And then that basically draws down the amount that they have left for that quarter.

Dario22:13Yeah, I feel like whenever I hear of people that have like a retainer client, it it's always a similar type of situation where it's like a it's a very long relationship they've had with that client. So there's like they already know how each other works and the types of projects they do every year. I I've almost the the other type I've heard where it's like I guess this company was in a very fortunate position where they're very busy, so the client wanted access to them. So that's why they put them on retainer just to be able to have access to them. Which I was like, I'm very jealous to hear that, you know, because that's I think that's what we all dream of. Clients just fighting for you. but

Doug22:44Right. Yep. Yeah.

Dario22:53yeah, other than that, like like trying to get something where it's like three month contracts or stuff like that, it's it's tricky. I like there's another guest that kinda has that, but it's for like coffee shops or things of that nature where it kinda makes sense. I actually know some people that do that as well. But I feel like that type of business, you can't really scale it too well because you're relying on, you know, just the fact that you can go for one to two hours, shoot the stuff, and then maybe like squeeze out a quick edit within a couple hours, right? But like for someone that's like more so like at our level, it's like, okay, well, I gotta work on this stuff. I can't go waste half the day to that place, that restaurant, get that stuff and get all that. And you know, it's never two hours, it's always gonna be more at the end of the day.

Doug23:37Right. Yeah.

Dario23:41And then okay, so if I have to send someone out, my guys are gonna charge me at least this with a minimum of that. It's like, okay, so I can't make any money on this. What's even the point? I feel like a lot of us kind of

Doug23:49Right.

Dario23:49like don't bother with it because like the margins just aren't there, right? And then the types of clients we have,

Doug23:52Yeah. Right.

Dario23:55it's like I mean, I can't see my financial clients needing me on like a three month retainer where every month they need like a certain amount or this or that. It's really just I guess the nature of of certain businesses is just having one to a few video projects a year. Right. It's just up to us to kinda get more of those clients, kinda make it seem like, you know, it's on a month to month type of thing.

Doug24:17Yeah. I mean the restaurants are super, super tough. I'm I don't think I've I don't big I don't think BT Studio ever had a restaurant client that I can remember. I did work with restaurants in my agency days. those were like bigger ones like California Pizza Kitchen and kind of, you know, names that that a lot of people have heard of. and I mean that's obviously a whole other thing because those are I I don't know about CPK in particular, but most of those are franchises. I mean, that's like big business and it's a little bit different. But the small restaurants, man, that's such a tough business to to make work for those restaurants, to for them to stay open. And so having the the money to hire, you know, professional commercial filmmakers is is really tough. The and I I won't name the particular client that we have this retainer relationship with, but it's a big tech company. And so, you know, it's a little different for them in terms of they know they're gonna use this much every quarter. and so it's It's just easier for them to to like you say, like have the resources available. I'm very flexible with them in terms of dates and travel and and all that sort of stuff. So that's how it works out. But yeah, I I because we don't focus on that too much, I don't ha necessarily have great advice for making it work. I just know that it it can, in in the right circumstance.

Dario25:48Yeah. well on on the topic of I guess sales then, like wha w wha how do you how do you get a majority of your business? I mean, yeah, you mentioned referrals and everything. Do you do

Doug26:01Yeah.

Dario26:02like I mean I found you pretty easily, so I'm guessing your SEO profile is fairly strong. do you do any any outbound stuff or is it mostly just inbound?

Doug26:14the only I mean, I guess if you wanna call LinkedIn posts outbound, that would be the only real outbound? Sure, sure, yeah.

Dario26:21I think that's more so marketing, no?

Doug26:25yeah, no no real outbound sales. I mean, so the on the SEO side of things, you know, I looked into okay, what's it gonna take to get BT Studio, you know, ranked on the f first or second page of Google when someone searches you know, San Francisco video production or or something similar. what I found was a lot of time, a lot of effort or and or a lot of money. And I was like, okay, let's let's find a different approach. So basically what I did was twofold. there's websites like clutch.co and similar which are basically ranking

Dario27:03Directories.

Doug27:03service providers. And so th they also have reviews. I have a pretty pretty beefy review process for clients I would former clients.

Dario27:13Mm-hmm.

Doug27:14And then same thing with Google. and Google Maps. basically just getting I did a review campaign, essentially. I had never done anything like that before, but just wrote a bunch of trusted clients an email saying, hey, we're doing this campaign to increase our digital presence. if you'd feel comfortable writing a review, here's what to do. Here are the links, made it super easy for them. and then, you know, a a number of quotes from that ended up on our our website as well, which I had never done before.

Dario27:43Did you have trouble sorry to interrupt, did you have trouble with getting them to write the review? 'Cause that's often parts the the side I struggle with, it's like they say they'll do it and they don't do it and I don't want to be like that annoying like subscription that keeps coming in and it's like, Hey, can you write this for me?

Doug27:58Yeah. s I mean, yeah, some I don't know, maybe twenty-five percent of people said they said they would and didn't and I just followed up once or twice and then let it go.

Dario28:09Yeah.

Doug28:09but the other seventy-five percent did. you know, I told them like, Hey, you can copy and paste from here to there, don't care. you know, I gave them all the links. I yeah, just try to do everything I could to make it as easy as possible and reduce the workload for them.

Dario28:26So you you wrote the review for them too, like saying like if you want you can use this or use your own imagination, right?

Doug28:31no, no. Just say I was just telling them like you can copy you can copy your own review and paste it from clutch to Google right.

Dario28:39I'm like I see, okay.

Doug28:41You don't have to write a new thing for everyone. I mean that's probably obvious, but

Dario28:45Yeah. Yeah, it's it's tricky. Sometimes I struggle with that 'cause it's like, man, like I don't wanna pester them, but I need this review, like please. They don't realize how like important it is at times.

Doug28:53Right, right. Yeah. I mean, you know, I don't know I I only I think I only ended up getting like nine or something. but I kinda just stopped there because I it it's it definitely increased the visibility and so I was like I don't wanna pester people if it's not necessary. So

Dario29:14Yeah.

Doug29:15yeah.

Dario29:16Google reviews is yeah, that's the key one. That helps a lot with going up the the map with the the map rankings.

Doug29:22Yeah.

Dario29:24yeah, that one's really good. so sorry, you were saying you did yeah, you did you were doing Google reviews. is there anything for the SEO, sorry, for the SEO, what else were you focusing on?

Doug29:35clutch.co is I think a good one. there's a ProductionHub, you know, got

Dario29:43Mm.

Doug29:44reviews there. I think I pay I know on clutch and and ProductionHub I pay like a monthly or yearly thing just for a little bit more visibility.

Dario29:51Can pay. Do you get clients from them though? Because I I tried it out too for like one to two years. I got no one from that site. So I just stopped it. we so I

Doug30:00W which one? ProductionHub or?

Dario30:02tried I tried clutch

Doug30:05Mm-hmm.

Dario30:05and so here the clutch and upcity were popular. I don't know they still are.

Doug30:10Yeah.

Dario30:11but that one, I think UpCity I was about to pay and then I was like, I don't know, I'm not seeing it. I wasn't seeing it on clutch and I was like, I know they're probably like sister companies or what they're always owned by the same person anyways, right? So but did you get any s sorry, go ahead. Manifest is the other one. Yeah.

Doug30:21Right, right, yeah, yeah. The the clutch and clutch and manifest I think are owned by the same and I think yeah, I think I think UpCity might be different. But anyway, it's I never really, really know because when I I I don't have any like sophisticated tracking on the website and when I ask people, how did you find us, they just say Google and then I'll say, like Google search results or Google Maps and they're like, I don't remember. So I I never really know. But I do know that a bunch of random people have showed up after I started these things, this review campaign, saying

Dario30:58Mm.

Doug30:58I found you through Google and that used to be no one. It was all referrals before that. So it is working. I just don't know exactly which one is working the best. Yeah. Yeah.

Dario31:09So I'll give you a little tip. This might help you out. 'cause I like to ask it on like the intro calls, like, how did you

Doug31:15Yeah.

Dario31:15find us? And I I personally have I've whenever I ask, they always they go like they go search and see what it was, right? So I that's the

Doug31:22Hmm.

Dario31:23experience I've had where they're like, hold on, let me go back and check. And then they'll be able to find the keyword. At the time I would write

Doug31:26Yeah. Yeah.

Dario31:29down the keyword and everything, but because I also like record the call, like the transcript with the whatever Gemini because I Google Meets, right? So it has the Gemini button there, so it's recording the transcript and everything. You can feed those transcripts into you can create so save all those transcripts and then you can have like Claude for example create like a script to kind of convert those into like an Excel where it can search for specific things and then you can find exactly

Doug31:57Hm, yeah.

Dario31:59what the the keyword was.

Doug32:01Right, right.

Dario32:02Something I found out recently. It's just really helpful 'cause now you don't have to go and you can just ask naturally and then it's logged in there and then you can have Claude later on figure out what it was.

Doug32:09Right. Right, right, right. No, yeah, that's sounds like a good workflow. I mean, maybe if I had done that I would realize there are more people than I remember saying this is exactly how I found you. But the way I remember it is eighty percent

Dario32:26Google.

Doug32:27out of the eight eighty percent say Google and then that's a that's not specific enough to really know if it was

Dario32:31Yeah, yeah.

Doug32:32the the clutch search results on Google or Google or what it was. So

Dario32:37I I wish we had access to Claude like when we first started out back in like twenty

Doug32:41Mm-hmm.

Dario32:41fourteen, fifteen, 'cause just imagine like the like like the the the the iceberg of data we'd have access to, right? 'Cause it's like we

Doug32:49Mm. Yeah.

Dario32:52this whole like called transcript stuff started like twenty twenty one, twenty twenty two, really? That's

Doug32:57Right.

Dario32:58that's when I remember like Fireflies or what's the other one came out and it was doing that stuff. It wasn't great, but it was something, right? But now it's good.

Doug33:05Yeah. Multiple of our clients have Basically, their product is the a a similar pitch, which is like the richest customer data you have is trapped in conversations that you're probably not using. so basically their products will will just f search those transcripts and this is for more like call center type scenarios where there's thousands

Dario33:31Mm-hmm.

Doug33:31of conversations, but it'll basically tell you, summarize very quickly for you what are your customers' main complaints, what are they happy with, you know, all that stuff. It's a it's just fair.

Dario33:42Yeah, I I can only imagine, like it's especially for the like if only they were they're probably recording that stuff too, right? Even way back when it's so

Doug33:48yeah, that for sure. Yeah, that's true. I guess big businesses have probably years worth of customer like call center recordings that they

Dario33:58Yeah.

Doug33:59can that they can now feed into an LLM and get a summary. Yeah.

Dario34:03Yeah, it's yeah, that's interesting. for for your SEO though, like what else helped helped you? So yeah, obviously like focusing on like did you do any stuff on the blog? I'm just checking out your blog right now. Like what would really help boost your website up?

Doug34:16Obviously I there's I don't know there's not that many posts on there, so I doubt it's had that much of an effect. One thing that from way, way, way back that probably helped or is the first project they ever did as a freelancer was called evolution of the desk. It's this gif of a desk it's a video but also a gif of a desk that starts in 1980. So it's got a globe and a Rolodex and an encyclopedia and all these physical objects and then as the years start going by those those objects disappear and it turns into an app on the computer and at the end you're left with just a laptop, a phone and a pair of sunglasses. And then That thing went bananas viral. Like the the clo the c client's best guess has been seen like over 500 million times in one form or another.

Dario35:16Wow, okay.

Doug35:18And part of, you know, I did it for very, very cheap, but part of the deal was like when when that when you guys post that include a link to at the time it was dougthomsen.tv. But now

Dario35:30Mm-hmm.

Doug35:31that that URL, so that link that that URL is all over the internet from all these different sites. And now that that URL, dougthomsen.tv, is just auto-forwarding to BT Studio, which help

Dario35:45Right.

Doug35:46which Google reads as the same. same thing. So that was that was a help as well. So basically it's a it's essentially

Dario35:52my god, yeah.

Doug35:53what they call a link building campaign, right?

Dario35:56Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Doug35:57So Google interprets that as like, okay, this is an expert, this site is an expert on this topic because tons of people are linking to it.

Dario36:05I'm joking.

Doug36:07On well, because it no, it's a good question. I mean, and that was the client's intent. They were they had a r a page of reviewing the best home office desks.

Dario36:18Yeah.

Doug36:19and it worked great for them. But it says like I think it says directed by dougthomsen.tv. So I don't know

Dario36:26Nice.

Doug36:26how intelligent Google is in that way, but yeah, it was s tr trying to specify a certain expertise.

Dario36:31That that's you lucked out with that one, 'Cause you you've been riding the way from the that's that's a I wish. I'm jealous.

Doug36:39Yeah. But I mean it's an interesting as like a thought of like, okay, how do you take, you know, a a viral video and not just make money from like the a the YouTube pre roll ads or product sponsorship or whatever, but you can actually build SEO with good content, you know, if it's seen by a lot of

Dario37:02Yeah, yeah.

Doug37:03people.

Dario37:04And I mean that that was probably like an indirect thing too. Like you probably didn't expect you didn't expect it to go as viral as it did and then and yet like it it paid off in the end, right?

Doug37:10no. Yeah, yeah. It's you know, I think it's just a testament to you know, putting putting that energy behind an interesting idea and sometimes it works out great.

Dario37:25how big's your team right now? Is it is it just you or do you have other people?

Doug37:28I'm the only full time person. I have a part time producer, and then maybe two to three editors, two to three animators that are kind of rotating between different projects. you know, any one to three of them could be could be working on something at any given time. obviously all the the crew.

Dario37:48the the freelance or or part of the like okay, okay. Yep okay.

Doug37:50Yeah. Yeah, they're they're freelance. Yeah. So yeah, it's it's very lean in terms of the full time, obviously.

Dario37:59Yeah, I mean, honestly, like with businesses like ours, like y I think only at a certain level do you need to like really bring on people full time and it depends too on like what the the the goals are. Like there's people that want to get to the point where like yeah, they have staff and this or that, but

Doug38:17Right.

Dario38:18I mean, this is such an unpredictable business at times too, 'cause it's like it's it's not guaranteed. Like the next month could be empty. You just don't know. I think sometimes I think

Doug38:26Right.

Dario38:27about how crazy we are for choosing to do

Doug38:29Okay.

Dario38:30this because I was like someone that's not used to this lifestyle, like I I started this straight out of uni. So for me, I've I haven't really

Doug38:36Yeah.

Dario38:37experienced like a nine to five where it's like, okay, I know Monday to Friday until I get fired. Like I'm guaranteed work, right? But

Doug38:41Right. Yeah.

Dario38:46to do this is sometimes I think about it, I'm like, well we something's not right with us because we could get nothing for six months and that hey that's what it is what it is type of thing, right? But

Doug38:54Yeah.

Dario38:55something always comes in. Something always comes in.

Doug38:58Yeah, that was I mean, what you're describing there was a a constant source of stress for me for a while. Luckily the past couple of years I've I I mean, I we've been more consistently busy, which has helped. But I've even when that's not the case, I've just kind of learned to like let it go. and just trust. easier said than done, you know, and and the the earlier you are in your career. Honest honestly, if I think if we can learn to see those slow times not as a source of stress but as a as a great opportunity to feed the your creative side. Because in the best case scenario, you're you're super super busy all the time, and then you won't have you'll be struggling, you'll be craving those slow periods. So just I you know, I would just say even though it's hard to do this financially, like try to see. those as as opportunities. and then when you make something cool and creative like that will get you more work, you know, if you do it well. So

Dario40:07Yeah, and and I mean again, I I started this when I was younger too. So but I feel like if I started this now, like I don't know,

Doug40:11Yeah, I wanted to f Yeah.

Dario40:14'cause it's like if if again, if you go from consistent like full time work to hey,

Doug40:17Yeah, yeah.

Dario40:18there's nothing this week, I would freak out. Especially if I had like, you know, like I was married with a kid, then I would really, really freak out. How how old were you when sorry, go ahead, go ahead.

Doug40:27Yeah, yeah. No, I wanted to I w just wanted to follow up because you said you started it out of university, which is I you know, I can't imagine being that young and not having kinda any why you know, not having much work experience and just Okay. Yeah, yeah. Okay, that helps. Yeah, yeah.

Dario40:46Well, I was living at home it's start sorry, I meant like in terms of money coming in. I was living at home. So it like kinda like if I was on my own, maybe that it helped a lot. Like I got a little spoiled at the beginning, I think.

Doug40:57Mm-hmm.

Dario40:58but I think that also held us back because I was too comfortable. Cause

Doug41:02Right.

Dario41:02I think if I had a little bit of that fire under my ass that like, Hey, am I gonna make today's r like this month's rent payments?

Doug41:08Yeah.

Dario41:08I would have like hustled a lot harder. That's why I tell like

Doug41:11Right.

Dario41:12my young PAs and everything. I asked them, it's like, Are you living at home? and they're Yeah, I was like

Doug41:15Yeah.

Dario41:16Move out. Move figure it out. Move out. You need you need that stress of like how am I gonna make today like this month's rent payment? And that'll force

Doug41:24Right.

Dario41:24you to like really go the extra level. But a lot of the young guys I work with

Doug41:27Yeah.

Dario41:28now, like sometimes I go like, Man, these guys are way, way bigger hustlers than I was at the time 'cause they're always working. I'm like, this is great. Keep it up. You'll be rich by the time you get to my age.

Doug41:36Right, right. Here's an alternative, which is pay your parents rent. Right. That way you've got you've got this safety net, but also the urgency. I don't know. 'Cause it's

Dario41:43Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Doug41:49hard to rationalize like giving up free rent, you know.

Dario41:53But you need that I don't know, like a yes, logically, but again, you you're thinking about it now. At the time you'd like you need to feel that like danger almost. You know what I mean? That'll force you to like really like make decisions that you normally wouldn't. That's what I think. I don't know.

Doug42:10Right. Yeah. Well, I mean you you you live the other side of it. so y you you know better probably.

Dario42:19How old were you when you started the 'cause I remember you mentioned you you were doing this in in uni, but then I think you went and worked somewhere, right? So how old were you when you kinda like

Doug42:26Yes, I did.

Dario42:27went like start like, you know, got your feet wet in this?

Doug42:30Yeah, I was twenty seven. So right,

Dario42:32Twenty seven. okay, okay.

Doug42:34right. So I had been working an agencies for six years. I had saved up not much, but like you know, a a little bit to get me started. I didn't need a a paycheck tomorrow. so But you know, that goes quick. I did go into a little bit of credit card debt, you know, while I was kind of getting things up and running. If I had it to to do over again, I would probably do it. I would either save more or I would build up more of a reel and do more projects. you know. To have a portfolio before I quit. The tough thing was,

Dario43:09Mm-hmm.

Doug43:10you know, it was a great agency. I loved the job and the people there. It was called Moving Brands, my last one. but it was a fifty to fifty five hour a week job. you know, plus I, you know, my now wife, who was then my girlfriend, like having a relationship and there just was not a lot of time or energy.

Dario43:29Yeah.

Doug43:30All I wanted to do was kinda relax on the weekend if I wasn't working.

Dario43:33Yeah. Yeah.

Doug43:35so I wish I would have had either more savings or more of a portfolio when I jumped in, but you know, I did what I did what I could at the time.

Dario43:46Yeah, I mean like it is it is what it is. You don't know like again, you don't know this stuff until you do it. And even for people

Doug43:51Right.

Dario43:52listening to this, like that are in the position you were in however many years ago, like you just won't know until you try it, right? And but it's interesting to reflect back sometimes and go like, okay, if this happened, I would have been a little bit a little bit different. What what about like let's talk

Doug44:08Right.

Dario44:08a little bit like more future forward now? Like, okay, so

Doug44:10Yeah.

Dario44:11now you kind of have your part time producer, you got a team and everything.

Doug44:14Yeah.

Dario44:14You guys seem to be at a pretty good level in terms of the quality of work you're pumping out. what do you what what's kinda like what's like next in mind for you g for you?

Doug44:24Yeah. so the on the commercial side of things, I'd love to direct more, you know, kind of come quote unquote commercial. Not not like necessarily a bounty quicker picker upper commercial, but like you know, s

Dario44:41Ha ha.

Doug44:42spots with with a story and with actors and you know

Dario44:45Yeah.

Doug44:46crypto premium stuff like that. and then on the personal creative side, I think I I probably mentioned this to you before. I I wrote a script, a feature-length script, with a good friend. So unlike the one that I direct previously, which was written by someone else, you know, this one is, you know, super super close to my my heart and really want to see it produced. So we are working on that. but as far as BT Studio goes

Dario45:13Is it is it this Pride Jewel I'm seeing on the on the blog post? Because I see our first feature film, Pride Jewel.

Doug45:17Yes. Yes. That but that's yeah. I mean that blog post may say a more recent date because I the in the new website, like all that blog stuff got reposted. But that would

Dario45:30okay.

Doug45:30that would have been from twenty twenty two. The what yeah.

Dario45:34This is this the one you mentioned pride jewel. Sorry, this is the one the Armenian guy you mentioned, right? I'm sorry.

Doug45:40Yes, exactly. Yeah, yeah.

Dario45:42I'm sorry. Okay, okay. Okay. Okay, cause this no, I saw like a a guy with a mask on it. I thought this was like the new thing, but cause you said it was like

Doug45:50no no.

Dario45:50a story about a guy coming over. I didn't think it would be this one. Okay.

Doug45:54yeah, yeah. So he the story for that one is he he comes to America, kinda falls in with the wrong crowd and they are j jewelry thieves. And eventually they

Dario46:03Okay, okay.

Doug46:04end up trying to steal cash and jewelry from an Armenian wedding. So it's it's kind of like a wedding wedding heist, which is probably the

Dario46:10interesting. Okay. Right, right.

Doug46:13the most unique selling point for it.

Dario46:15Interesting, interesting. So sorry, you were saying about this new one you're working on.

Doug46:19Yeah, the new one is is a two sided kind of parallel main character story. One of them is a like a nineteen year old kind of like disaffected youth who he and his friend decide to stay stay in their town and during a fire forest fire evacuation and like loot from the abandon the homes that have been abandoned. and then the other one is

Dario46:43Interesting.

Doug46:44a retired Forest Service ranger who's trying also staying behind but trying to help this family escape the fire and then eventually their stories collide in a way that we've never seen done in a movie before. So it I it maybe it's out there somewhere, but it's it's a very novel novel twist at the end.

Dario47:06And I like how you're kinda incorporating what happened with the the recent Wildfire I think Wildfire's last year, is that when it was?

Doug47:12Yeah. I mean, yeah, so well for here in California, I mean, it seems like almost every year we've got something going

Dario47:18Every year, right?

Doug47:19on. I mean, you guys in Canada have a ton.

Dario47:21We're starting to get it too. Yeah.

Doug47:23I know. It's crazy. And and then like, so I I went to high school in Michigan, a bunch of my friends still live there. They're getting they don't have the fires, but they get the smoke from the Canadian wildfires.

Dario47:34The smoke, yeah.

Doug47:34So like everywhere is starting to to be affected and it's it is topical. yeah. Unfortunately, that's topical, but

Dario47:43That that that that started the smoke here started in twenty twenty-three. I remember cause it was like around lunchtime. I go out for a walk and

Doug47:51Yeah.

Dario47:51I was like, someone's but like someone's fireplace is on. I'm like, I was like, in the summer, why would their fireplace be on? Right? And I'm like,

Doug47:58Yeah.

Dario47:58wait, why can't I see like is it my glasses? Like I went and cleaned my glasses. I'm like, I can't see

Doug48:03Yeah.

Dario48:03that far ahead. And then that's when people start reporting on it, and it was like I was that was crazy. Like I'd been in Canada since ninety-nine. I'd never seen that before. And it started twenty-three.

Doug48:10Yeah. Yeah.

Dario48:14And then ever since then we get it. Like we just had it recently

Doug48:16Yeah.

Dario48:17in I forget when, June or July. And

Doug48:20Yeah.

Dario48:21the first day we had it here was like it kept seeing like reels and TikToks about people saying Canada got a Mexico filter or Toronto got a Mexico filter. 'Cause it was just yellow outside. I was like this is crazy. I've never seen this before.

Doug48:30It's orange, yeah. Yeah. We've had a couple of those days here in San Francisco, you know, when there's fires in Northern California. Just orange sky, hazy. Yeah, that's nuts.

Dario48:45Yeah. so I that but I I I do have some questions about the the the film. So you you the film you're make you're making. Have you made it yet or you're in the process of making? Where are you at in it? Okay.

Doug48:53No, no, it's it's written. and because it's you know, it's not a small movie on f you know, it's not two characters on a farm sort of indie movie. So it requires a big enough budget that In order to to feel comfortable like putting up that budget, I think we want to have like a recognizable actor in it to to give it a good chance of making its money back. And in order to do that, we need you know, producer or producers with the credibility to get the script to actors or agents and actually have them pay attention and read it and not just kind of dismiss it. so we are working on finding that producer. That's the that's the phase. Yeah.

Dario49:41I see. Interesting. Okay. Excuse me, what about like grants? Like are there grants for like the excuse me, the type of feature you're going for or?

Doug49:51Potentially. I mean there is a climate change angle to it. It's it's not preachy.

Dario49:55Yeah.

Doug49:56It's not a political film, but there definitely is that element to it. So there may be. you know, I'd have to see if if the grants are you know, go to films that are mostly entertainment. you know, it does have a good moral. There there is a little bit more to it than just the entertainment, but Yeah, I haven't I haven't looked into that too much.

Dario50:23Yeah, I'm asking 'cause my friend recently turned me on to onto like the Canadian grants for this stuff, because he was talking about how he got a grant for his series and everything, and he's breaking it down for me. He's telling me all this information, and I was like I was like, this is really interesting. I had no idea. And he's like, Yeah, yeah, like if you have something in mind, you should go do it because the more of us do it, the more they give out these grants and increase the numbers. I was like, okay, interesting. He was kind of breaking it all down. I I had Claude kinda like run through it and kinda give me some suggestions of where to start. It seems like it's a bit of a process.

Doug50:55Yeah.

Dario50:56You kinda have to get started early and everything and then you gotta have something to show and all that stuff. But yeah, it's something

Doug50:58Yeah. Right.

Dario51:01I'm I've been I'm gonna take a look at this maybe after this month cools down a little bit. I'll have some

Doug51:08Okay.

Dario51:09extra time. Speaking of, you know, busy times and cold times and

Doug51:11Yeah, yeah. So I don't know I don't know a lot about the Canadian film grants, but my understanding is that they are more plentiful, let's say, than than we have here. I I'm sure this isn't

Dario51:26interesting.

Doug51:27a hundred percent true, but I think most of the grants that happen here are like documentary like you know, kind of like good cause type of stuff.

Dario51:38I see.

Doug51:39and maybe a couple for narrative stuff, but yeah, I don't think it's a major route f if for in the US.

Dario51:47Interesting. cool. So you mentioned feature anything else or

Doug51:53I mean, there's a couple we're c finishing up a couple nonprofit projects. we work every year with a organization called Hamilton Families here in the Bay Area, which is trying to end family homelessness in this in the city and and the surrounding areas. we also work with the San Francisco Symphony, which is a nonprofit

Dario52:14nice.

Doug52:15and cool like city institution. So we just finish up their the video for their like fundraising gala. and and they actually provide all the music education for the public schools in San Francisco, which is crazy. Like the the curriculum and the instruments, not the teachers themselves, but Yeah, so those are the f cool things that we just finished up and then yeah, there's a couple potential projects on the table, but and then the ongoing retainer thing and so no sh no shortage of stuff to do, but also you know, there's not like one major thing that's that's dominating work right now.

Dario52:57What about like internally? Because like I know for us, for example, what I'm trying to find the time to do is like really mine the sales data I have from because I I mentioned this in another episode where I I had Google there's a thing called Google Takeout and I had to download all the emails

Doug53:16Better.

Dario53:18from the beginning of time. and I've been like mining information from that, but I haven't had the chance to go through it. And fine-tune all that stuff. But there's like a ton of stuff in there. I kind of wanna like that's one thing I'm looking forward, like I'm not looking forward to, I'm looking to do as soon as I

Doug53:33Yeah.

Dario53:34have some time. that's an example, and then I I would like to fix up the blog a bit more because I I did like a whole like revamp on the website, but

Doug53:44Yeah.

Dario53:44I need to go in and like fine-tune things, especially visually. I I didn't find this out until the other week, but Claude's really good for like writing and all that stuff, but visually it's it's a little bit lacking. So I've been doing visual stuff in ChatGPT and then bringing it over to Claude and say, Hey, I want it like this, so just code it for me so I can then implement it. So

Doug54:06Nice.

Dario54:07I've revamped the websites, but now I have to revisualize and add more to them to again feed into our SEO and all that stuff. I'm just curious, like what what are some examples of what you want to do internally?

Doug54:19Yeah. so the website we launched a new version of the website in January of this year. So, you know, and that was a long process which which included rebranding, same name of the company, but new logo, color palette, all that stuff. So

Dario54:35Mm-hmm.

Doug54:36you know, I'm not really interested in this did in in any sort of major revamp. I mostly just wanna like post new work and make sure it's up to date and 'cause it's been it's been I don't have like tracking stats or anything like that, but just in terms of like the way clients are engaging, the type of work that's coming in, or or at least opportunities, it's been working. I like I can definitely tell that people are perceiving the company differently. And I think the way that the work is presented is finally matching the quality of the work itself, which in the past

Dario55:11You should check your Google Analytics for the website. 'Cause if you I'm sure it's connected to Google Analytics, so just download the the data from that and have like Claude go through it.

Doug55:22Yeah. That's a yeah, that's that would be a good use for for an LLM because I you know, there's a lot of data there. and

Dario55:30Yeah.

Doug55:32it's like, yeah, I need I need the bullet point summary, so that that would be a good use for that. the one thing I do want to do sorry, go ahead.

Dario55:37Yeah, 'cause No, no, no, no, go go ahead. All right.

Doug55:41The one thing I do want to do on the website is create an FAQ for if not every page, at least one major one, but maybe every page. Cause the l more and more people are going to LLMs and saying, what's the best video production? Here's here's the project I have, what's the best video production company in the Bay Area? And multiple

Dario56:00Yeah.

Doug56:00people have told us that they found us through Claude or ChatGPT. So those those FAQs I think the FAQs help with the with my understanding

Dario56:06That's not to do with the FAQ though. No, it's it's not that and it used it used to.

Doug56:13YouTube and okay. I've got old

Dario56:13It used to. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's that's that's what it was because I I have a f Qs on my website as well. Those are good

Doug56:19Yeah.

Dario56:19for like people on the website because they'll have questions that they're probably

Doug56:22Uh-huh. Yeah.

Dario56:23gonna ask, but Google used to use that as a ranking factor before, like but not anymore apparently. I

Doug56:30Yeah.

Dario56:31I didn't I don't know. That's what Claude was telling me. Because I would tell it, it's like, what about the FAQ? When it was redoing the pages, it's like, it's not really

Doug56:36Yeah.

Dario56:37an important thing. I'm like, keep it in there.

Doug56:40But for that you mentioned for Google though, but for if people are using an out an AI answer engine to s to have it recommend production companies, my understanding was that the FAQs helped the LLM because it's a very direct like c question question answer format.

Dario57:00I see.

Doug57:03So

Dario57:03maybe.

Doug57:05I mean this is so why I'm getting this from Webflow, which is a a client of ours, and they've

Dario57:10Mm-hmm.

Doug57:11kind of like recently launched this, I can't remember what they're called what they call it, but it's basically how to optimize your Webflow site so that AI AI gets the right information from it and like presents you presents you as an option to users.

Dario57:27Yes. So I saw that if you go to Google PageSpeed, it'll tell you now if it's an agenc agent optim or god, I forget the term. They have a they added a new tab for if your

Doug57:40Yeah.

Dario57:41website is easy for LLMs to understand. And

Doug57:44Mm-hmm.

Dario57:44one of the things was recommending to add a a type of file to your website, which I did I did do. I forget what it was called though. It's like it's almost like a robot text, but

Doug57:56Okay.

Dario57:56It's like an LLM I think it's called llms.txt, something like that. But you can have like Claude or ChatGPT create it for you and then just upload it to the website. and that'll help

Doug58:07Nice.

Dario58:08the search that'll help the LLMs understand your website better. Like in in terms of being able to parse it and and know what you

Doug58:15Right.

Dario58:16you w the type of content you have on on the website.

Doug58:18Right. Maybe that would be a better option than the FAQs 'cause like

Dario58:22I mean the FAQs are still good, like for clients like that are on it and might have questions, right?

Doug58:28Yeah, it would it would get them answers to their questions, but I I don't love like the perception of that, I think. 'Cause I for me anyway, I think of FAQs as like let's say I'm gonna go to I don't know, Travelocity or something. And then I'm like

Dario58:45Mm-hmm.

Doug58:45something very transactional where I don't w I'm not expecting to interact with a human. And then I'm like, okay, well what's

Dario58:51okay.

Doug58:52what's the return policy? How does this work? Right. That that's where I personally as a human find value in FAQs. I don't yeah, I don't necessarily want potential clients reading like interacting with BT Studio in that kind of very like linear direct format.

Dario59:10Interesting. That's the first time I've heard someone explain it like that. But that's why I like talking to different people 'cause like people have different perspectives on things. I would have never like thought of that for an FAQ, right? Interesting.

Doug59:22Yeah, and and maybe you know, maybe that's just my bizarro maybe perception. Like maybe people don't think of it that way at all. but I don't know, that's that's where I come from. I'd rather yeah, I'd rather not put on there if it's if it if the LLMs are not really using it. Like if they're just gonna use this other file, then I'll just do that and have it be invisible to

Dario59:45Interesting. anything else aside from the the website? And again, feature film and

Doug59:51Yeah, no. I mean, I maybe this is a yeah, privileged position to be in, but I'm not feeling the urgency to like push. I I in fact I kinda wanna maybe c consolidate a little bit, like take on less like one day shoot kind of projects. I mean I I'm ne probably never gonna be able to turn those down entirely. but tr you know, trying to to focus on on kind of like start to finish projects with posts that involve creative and and all that stuff just because it's hard to really dive in and do those as well as you can when it's like, I've got a shoot on Thursday. I'm okay, well there goes goes ten hours, a full day that I can't be really thinking about this other thing. So that's a very soft, amorphous sort of goal, but it is it is a goal.

Dario1:00:51That that that one is a constant battle between Kyrill and I 'cause he wants to do like the bigger stuff and like really focus on the A to Z of it. Which I am too, right? But I'm like, hey, Well we're not doing anything on Wednesday. It's a one day shoot. I don't know, I get one of us is gonna go.

Doug1:01:04There's right. Yeah. for sure, for sure. And I mean, that's the part of having a business partner that that was amazing. 'Cause like you could do I mean of course you have two salaries to pay, but You can do you can do both, you know, if if you if you so choose. so yeah, it's a tough balance and like you d it's hard to stop doing the things that got you to where you are. but there's that saying, you know, like as you move up the the career ladder or whatever you want to call it, like the th the things that got you t here will not get you to there. Or some people say it as like the things that

Dario1:01:47yeah, yeah.

Doug1:01:47worked in in middle management don't work in the C suite or however

Dario1:01:50Yeah.

Doug1:01:51you want to think about that. So I th you do kinda have to like reinvent yourself and and try not to remain stagnant, I think.

Dario1:02:00Yeah, the two salaries is something a of people don't don't think about it. 'cause

Doug1:02:03Ha ha ha.

Dario1:02:04like I I remember talking about a friend and he was asking me how we were doing. I was like, you know, we're doing this we're doing we're at this level. He's like, that's

Doug1:02:10Yeah.

Dario1:02:11amazing. I'm like, Yeah, but you forget there's two of us. So like the salary the

Doug1:02:15Right, right.

Dario1:02:16number that we get is like divided by two. And he's like, Okay, yeah, that's more.

Doug1:02:20Yeah.

Dario1:02:20Yeah, I was Yeah, like it's a little bit easier sometimes when it's like but

Doug1:02:25Yeah.

Dario1:02:26but yeah, anyways, I I think Here's a good point to end this. I think we're just over just at the one hour mark, so that's good.

Doug1:02:33Cool.

Dario1:02:34okay, so if you guys want to find Doug, go to bt.studio. okay. you don't have dot dot com, huh?

Doug1:02:41That's right. Yeah. No, just bt.studio is a new, a new dot com. So it's bt.studio.

Dario1:02:48Nice. I like that. I like that. That used to like be very rare before to see like dot not.ca or dot com. It was like but

Doug1:02:55Yeah. Right. I mean there's like so many now so a couple of years ago they like drastically expanded the list of domains, right? So there's dot film, there's dot fitness, there's there's dot everything now. So

Dario1:03:13Yeah, there's a I I forget which which dot whatever it was, but it was like dot I think it was like dot AI or something. And it's like

Doug1:03:23Yeah.

Dario1:03:25it's some country that's an island somewhere, I think in the Caribbean. And it was like that country's

Doug1:03:29Yeah.

Dario1:03:31now making a lot of money because of that, because it like kinda

Doug1:03:33Mm. Okay.

Dario1:03:34like rents out the dot AI domain to all these other

Doug1:03:38Yeah.

Dario1:03:39companies and they're kinda they're they're doing pretty well. So

Doug1:03:42Yeah, like you can back then when they were doing that expansion, you could apply to own one, right? It you had to sh show a whole bunch of work that you were gonna do, but you could you could own one. Yeah, it's interesting.

Dario1:03:55but yeah, anyways, bt.studio and what's your social handles? Let me see here. I'm checking for you. So it's I got it, I got it here. It's underscore

Doug1:04:02I have no idea. no. yeah yeah.

Dario1:04:08bt.studio on Instagram.

Doug1:04:10Yeah, that's Instagram. That's right. And then there is a BT Studio LinkedIn and then there's also just my LinkedIn, Doug Thomsen, S-E-N. Unusual spelling will help you find it. yeah.

Dario1:04:26But yeah, anyways, if you guys got shoots in San Francisco, as long as they're more than a day shoot, but even the day shoot. But

Doug1:04:33No, no, no, no, no. Call me for one-day shoots. I do one-day shoots.

Dario1:04:40yeah, reach out to Doug. I'm sure he'll be happy to help you out or point you in the right direction. but yeah, no, Doug, it's it's been great having you on. And again, I'm happy we got our first guy from San Fran. Actually, I'm pretty sure you're the first guy. I gotta double check now. I hope I didn't

Doug1:04:56Well at least the best.

Dario1:04:57I think you're one of the first one from s first ones from San Francisco. I was telling Doug, like I I made the mistake of like choosing people that are too close to each other for these last couple of episodes. So San Francisco, San Diego, l Las Vegas. So now I'm

Doug1:05:12Yeah.

Dario1:05:12getting all like mixed up on my end. But

Doug1:05:14Well how f how long do you think it takes to drive from San Francisco to San Diego?

Dario1:05:18I have no clue. I didn't even know San okay, I just again I might be ignorant on this, but I didn't

Doug1:05:24Yeah.

Dario1:05:24even know how close San Diego and San Francisco are to each other. 'Cause I looked on the map for the first time, I was like,

Doug1:05:29Yeah.

Dario1:05:29they're really close to each other. I thought they were way farther away. You just drive

Doug1:05:33Yeah.

Dario1:05:34down a little bit, you're in San Diego.

Doug1:05:36So with average traffic it would take you like nine hours to drive to San Diego. I Yeah, I d apparently

Dario1:05:42Sounds like Toronto.

Doug1:05:45that's apparently that's close in your mind. Most people in like the east coast of the US think that they're like, Hey Doug, I'm gonna be in LA I'm like, Great, that's a six hour drive. Let me know. Let me know when you're anywhere close to me. But anyway, yeah, it's it's they're close I guess when you are living, you know, in another country. Right.

Dario1:06:06When you're checking on Google Maps they look close. What's the kilometer distance? Is it like like fifty kilometers or is it like five hundred? 'Cause again I'm looking on maps, so I'm maybe I'm I'm a little scrolled out.

Doug1:06:18Yeah. let's see. Well, I don't know. let's say you're driving an average of seventy miles an hour and it's gonna take you nine hours. So yeah.

Dario1:06:29Okay, no that that's actually pretty far. Okay. Yeah, I guess they are far. I don't man, on Google Maps they look so close to each other. But anyways. All right.

Doug1:06:37San Jose is close. San Jose's one hour. Maybe that's maybe that's what you're thinking of.

Dario1:06:41I think I think I was thinking of San Jose. Sorry. San Francisco and San Jose. I think that's what the what I was thinking of. Okay,

Doug1:06:46Yes, those are super close.

Dario1:06:48yeah, yeah. That's that's probably what it see again, it's too the the names are too similar. They gotta San Yeah. All

Doug1:06:52I know. Everything stands with starts with sand or loss. yeah.

Dario1:06:57right, well anyways, Doug, thank you so much for coming on and yeah.

Doug1:07:02Thanks, Dario. This was a lot of fun. I look forward to to seeing more episodes.

Dario1:07:07Thank you.