Episode 65
Scaling Your Business (ft. MatchPoint Studio)
Tyler Mose does not romanticize the video business. He runs MatchPoint Studio, a Chicago video, animation, and illustration agency with offices in Indianapolis and Lafayette, and he is blunt about the thing most creatives would rather not hear: talent is not the job, selling is. MatchPoint is his second agency, he has been on his own for fifteen years, and he has grown it by stacking salespeople and guarding one number above all others, the profit margin on every single project.
In this episode, Tyler joins Dario and Kyrill for a candid, numbers-first conversation about scaling a video production company: how to find and train salespeople when most of them wash out, why not all revenue is good revenue, when to walk away from a triple-A brand that will not pay, the real cost of the gear and payroll behind every shoot, and a voiceover hack that turns a six-thousand-dollar quote into seven hundred and fifty. Dario and Kyrill match him story for story, including the time a mining client dragged out a three-thousand-dollar invoice while a table of gold cubes sat in the room.
Key Takeaways
- Sales is the whole game. No matter how talented the team, a video business lives or dies on selling. Tyler’s growth plan is almost boringly simple: hire salespeople, hand them a book of business, and keep stacking.
- Expect most salespeople to wash out. Only about 30 to 40 percent of the people he brings on make it, and the ones who do usually come from a background of successfully selling content or information, not from nowhere.
- Follow up forever. The biggest mistake in sales is failing to follow up. A “call me in Q4” goes straight into the task list for Q4, because a lead you lose today can still close in nine months, twelve months, or six years.
- Scale value, not workload. Running 60 to 70 projects a month is not scaling, it is just moving money. Fewer, larger, higher-margin projects usually take less time and actually pay you.
- Not all revenue is good revenue. Some work costs more in time, energy, and sanity than it returns. Turning down a huge brand that wants premium work at 20 percent of the price is a business decision, not a missed opportunity.
- Guard your margin per project. MatchPoint targets 60 percent margins on each job, measured per project rather than on blended revenue, because a handful of big wins can hide how thin the average deal really is.
- Price in the hidden costs. Gear that breaks, production vans, servers, and the employment tax and benefits that add 12 to 15 percent on top of every salary all eat the margin nobody warns you about.
- Check your ego on set. Everyone is an artist, but the client wants the finished product. If you truly only want to make music videos, go make them, but do not take corporate work you resent and phone it in.
- Protect your emotional flow, not just your cash flow. Entrepreneurship without exercise is, in Tyler’s words, a death sentence. Managing burnout is what keeps you in the game long enough to win.
Timestamps
Sales Is the Whole Business
Tyler opens with a thesis that will make a lot of creatives wince: you can be as talented as you want, but if you cannot get people to buy the work, none of it matters. His model for growth is deliberately unglamorous. Hire a salesperson, give them a book of business built from past accounts plus new ones they farm, and then keep stacking salespeople as revenue per head hits the numbers he wants. At the time of recording that meant three sellers including himself, with senior account executive Kevin Mallon running the pipeline and his nephew Atticus handling lead generation, mining the network and running cold outreach through software.
The catch is that hiring salespeople is brutal. Only 30 to 40 percent of the people he brings on actually make it, and the ones who last tend to arrive with a track record of selling content or information, not raw enthusiasm. If this is the wall you keep hitting, it is worth revisiting how other operators have built repeatable pipelines, from developing a real sales strategy to new ways to generate leads.
“If you're not selling, someone else is taking business from you.”
Tyler Mose, MatchPoint StudioFor a Lean Team, Start Selling One on One
Dario names the real bottleneck for a two-person shop like Lapse: there are only so many hours in a day, and cold outreach, marketing campaigns, and inbound all compete for the same time. Tyler’s answer is not a funnel or a growth hack, it is to start selling one on one. Reach out directly, ask for introductions to the people you already see in someone’s LinkedIn network, and position yourself as a resource rather than pushing for a yes on the first call. Above all, follow up. The single most common failure he sees is a seller who hears “we’re interested” and never circles back. If the answer is “call me in Q4,” that goes into Salesforce as a task for Q4, because the deal you do not win today can still close years from now.
Scale Value, Not Workload
MatchPoint is Tyler’s second agency. He co-founded his first, INDIRAP, in 2012 and left in 2019, in part because his former partner wanted to chase thousand-dollar-a-month social packages. His problem with that math is simple: 30 clients paying a thousand dollars a month does not scale a business carrying a half-million-dollar payroll, it just moves money around without making any. INDIRAP itself later joined the show in episode 101 on the ROI of content, which makes a useful companion listen on the same tension between volume and value.
The deeper point is that running 60 to 70 projects a month is not a flex, it is a trap. More services means more specialists, thinner margins, and, as Tyler puts it plainly, employees getting worked to the bone. Kyrill sharpens the framing: would you rather do fifty thousand in revenue for ten thousand in profit, or five hundred thousand in revenue for the same ten thousand? Scaling is about growing the value your business creates, not the size of the pile of work. That mindset runs through episodes like Scale Smart, Not Fast and Systems, Margins, and Mindset, and it is the same reason it pays to be clear-eyed about what a video actually costs to make.
“Not all revenue is good revenue.”
Tyler Mose, MatchPoint StudioSaying No to Bad-Fit Work
Some of the best business decisions Tyler describes are the ones where he walked away. He recently passed on a globally known brand that wanted the full package, creative scripting, production, 2D animation, and post, plus an expected fifty rounds of legal edits, for about 20 percent of what MatchPoint proposed. The temptation to say yes for the portfolio is real, but he has learned that a deal like that drives down margins, drains the team, and usually ends with a client you have grown to resent. Knowing which projects to take and which to decline is a skill in itself, explored in Choosing the Right Projects and in the red flags to watch for in new business leads.
Dario and Kyrill answer with a story of their own from way back in 2014: a mining company hired them to film a roundtable, plopped a pile of gold cubes on the table during setup, then dragged out the three-thousand-dollar invoice for months until Lapse threatened a copyright strike on the video. The punchline is that six of those little cubes would have covered the entire fee. Big budgets and prompt, fair payment are not the same thing, which is exactly why it helps to be able to defend your number and understand how to choose a video production company from the client’s side of the table.
The Hidden Cost of Running a Studio
The one role Tyler has never fully solved is the videographer. His animators, copywriters, and production director are rock solid, but shooters are where he sees the most turnover and the most ego. Part of it is that on-site production is genuinely mundane, hauling and lighting and tearing down, and part of it is that many shooters do not do the work for the money. He pays them well, but he still needs the business to make a profit, not run a seventy-thousand-dollar-a-month hobby. If you are weighing when to build a crew versus when to hire out, the tradeoffs are laid out in video production company vs videographer and in this guide to videographer day rates.
Then there is the gear. Tyler estimates MatchPoint shows up to even a simple interview and B-roll shoot with roughly two hundred thousand dollars of equipment, in a market where Red releases new cameras every year and a dropped drone is just a cost of doing business. Add production vans, servers, salaries, benefits, and 401ks, and the overhead is enormous. Because MatchPoint also does 2D and 3D work, that same overhead logic applies to their animation production, where the labor is in the craft rather than the kit.
Check Your Ego
Tyler’s most pointed advice is aimed at shooters who think a corporate recruitment video is beneath them. Everyone on a set is an artist, he says, but the client wants the finished product, not your reel. If you genuinely only want to make music videos or snowboarding edits, go do that, and good luck getting paid. What you should not do is take corporate work you resent and coast through it. Kyrill adds the other half of that coin: if you do take the gig, do it well, be someone people want to be in the trenches with, because the dry recruitment shoot you nailed today is often the reason a client calls you back for the fun project two years from now.
The Voiceover Hack Worth Thousands
One of the most practical moments in the episode is a straight-up money hack. Voiceover marketplaces will quote you the site’s price, not the artist’s, and Tyler has seen that markup run six or seven times. On one job a platform wanted six thousand dollars for a two-and-a-half-minute read. He tracked down the same artist directly and the real rate was seven hundred and fifty. The move: use a platform like Voices.com or VoiceBunny to audition and shortlist talent, then contact the person directly to hire them. Kyrill notes the platforms typically take a 10 to 15 percent commission, so factor that in, but for the kind of read that goes into an explainer video, the savings are real.
Margins, Emotional Flow, and Burnout
The number Tyler protects hardest is his margin, and he measures it per project rather than on blended revenue. He learned the hard way that a few big deals a year can inflate the average and hide how small the typical job really is, so MatchPoint aims for roughly 60 percent on every project. He is also candid about the costs nobody teaches: employment tax, unemployment tax, and benefits that quietly add 12 to 15 percent to every salary and get worse each year. It is the same discipline at the heart of Systems, Margins, and Mindset.
He closes on the part of entrepreneurship that spreadsheets miss. The failure rate is brutal and, in his telling, actually rises the longer you are in business, as founders burn out or lose interest on roughly a ten-year runway. His antidote is work-life integration and, only half-jokingly, exercise. You cannot mask exhaustion with caffeine forever, and protecting your health is what protects your longevity in a business this demanding.
“Controlling your emotional flow in this world is more important than controlling your cash flow.”
Tyler Mose, MatchPoint StudioFrequently Asked Questions
Who is Tyler Mose?
The CEO and co-founder of MatchPoint Studio in Chicago. He started at 18 doing game-day production for ESPN, studied at Purdue, previously co-founded the agency INDIRAP, and has run his own companies for about 15 years.
What is MatchPoint Studio?
A video production, animation, and illustration agency based in Chicago, Illinois, with offices in Indianapolis and Lafayette, Indiana. It produces corporate and branded video content for clients across the country. Site: matchpointstudio.com.
How does MatchPoint find and keep salespeople?
Tyler hires people who have already sold content or information successfully, trains them on how to price production, and expects only 30 to 40 percent to make it. Leads come from cold outreach, SEO campaigns, and mining the existing network.
What profit margin does MatchPoint target?
Around 60 percent, measured per project rather than on blended revenue. That margin has to cover gear, production vans, servers, payroll, benefits, and employment tax, and still pay the owner.
What is the voiceover hack from this episode?
Use a marketplace like Voices.com or VoiceBunny to audition and shortlist voice talent, then reach out to the artist directly to hire them. The platforms can mark rates up several times over, so a six-thousand-dollar quote can become seven hundred and fifty.
The Hosts
Dario Nouri and Kyrill Lazarov are the co-founders of Lapse Productions, a Toronto video production company, and the hosts of Creatives Grab Coffee, a weekly show about the business of video production.
About
Creatives Grab Coffee is a podcast about the business behind video production: sales, strategy, pricing, team building, and everything that happens off camera. New episodes every week on YouTube, Spotify, and Apple Podcasts.
Lapse Productions is a Toronto-based video production company serving tech, finance, healthcare, and manufacturing clients with corporate, promotional, event, and testimonial video. New to commissioning video? Start with our guide to the types of corporate video.
MatchPoint Studio is a video production, animation, and illustration agency based in Chicago, Illinois, with offices in Indianapolis and Lafayette, Indiana. Founded by CEO and co-founder Tyler Mose, the team produces corporate and branded video content for clients across the country. Learn more at matchpointstudio.com.
Full Transcript
Read the full episode transcript
Auto-generated and lightly edited for readability. It may contain small errors. For chapter deep-links into the video, use the Timestamps section above.
Dario00:01Okay guys, welcome to another episode. Today we have Tyler Moze from Matchpoint Studio. And Tyler, we were just chatting before we hit the record button. So you were mentioning how big our company is. We mentioned that it was just Carol and I. And then obviously we scale up and down based on the production. And then you started going into your tangent. So I'm just going to segue back into what we were talking about.
Tyler Mose00:06Mo's.
Tyler Mose00:25Yeah, for sure. I mean, you know, long story short, as far as on that, you know, we're small business owners, service providers, as far as within the entrepreneurship space. And it's all sales based. I mean, regardless of like, I think that's one thing like a lot of creatives learn really early on if they can, you know, stomach it, to be frank, that, you know, hey, I'm talented, hey, I'm creative, but like, can I get people to actually buy this and sustain myself and support myself?
Dario01:19How do you keep adding sales people? Because I find that's the hardest thing for us is trying to find someone to help us sell ourselves. I found that when we were first starting out, we actually tried bringing on a salesperson. But I feel like the way they were approaching our business wasn't in the correct… I guess what I'm trying to say is you had to be in the business to kind of understand how to sell it. So how do you find those people?
Tyler Mose01:27Mm -hmm.
Kyrill01:38It was too productized.
Tyler Mose01:43For sure. Yeah, I mean one, salespeople suck. I mean, salespeople suck, but you know, also like…
Dario02:53Yeah, with sales. Like how many are you at now?
Kyrill02:59And how, and nice, and how has like the turnover been? Cause you said you've gone through quite a few over the last few years. And do you find that like, for example, your current other two salespeople have been, have they been around for a while or is it kind of, you know, just for, just recently they jumped on.
Tyler Mose03:16They just recently jumped on. I did it all myself. So I've been in this business. I'm 40. I started when I was 18 working for ESPN. I did game day production at my university and quickly found out I don't want to be in that type of business. Tough business and I'll leave it at that. Respect those people a thousand percent, but I am not trying to… Maybe in my early 20s I would have wanted to be in two, three, four cities in a week and on the road and living out of a city.
Dario03:47Yeah.
Tyler Mose04:16and talk a great game and then when the road meets the rubber, like they're not developing anything or they're not bringing in the dollars because you know how it goes. It's one of those things that like until the money's in your bank account, checks cash cleared all that good stuff. Like you kind of just have hopes and dreams at that point. But we have had my senior account executive at Matchpoint, Kevin Mallon has been with us for about six months now has developed a pretty robust pipeline and some pretty extensive
Dario04:29Yeah. Yeah.
Tyler Mose04:46of clientele as far as for us. He came from another content advertising and marketing space as far as primarily selling a variety of white papers and information rich content as far as that companies use for lead generation. And then we have a very junior salesperson, actually my nephew Atticus Stevens, that is helping out as far as with lead generation through a variety of software systems we use as far as to find the correct contacts and then mining our actual network and then reaching out.
Dario05:18So you guys are doing like a lot of cold outreach, huh?
Tyler Mose05:21We run a lot of campaigns as far as online for lead generation. We run a lot of SEO campaigns and then we do a ton of cold outreach. If you really want to grow your business, you have to have a sales team. Good luck doing it on your own. In the history of the world, people have done it, but at the same time, you can only do so much. And the situation is, is…
Dario05:56That's like the part that we have a lot of trouble with is that like, you know, you need to do like the cold outreach and the marketing campaigns and like the inbound leads, but there's only so much time in the day, right? Like, so that's the part we struggle with a lot is like trying to find time to focus on everything. Cause even starting something like a marketing campaign, there's a lot of…
Kyrill06:33And me.
Tyler Mose06:45You gotta start doing it, man. We don't really do cold marketing outreach as far as from the cold marketing outreach, like email marketing, a lot of social content. We…
Dario07:26Low budget.
Kyrill07:28Yeah.
Tyler Mose07:29high production value, which is high service, low margin, low profit, bad business to be in. Like you have to do volume at that point. And like, I mean, I don't want to be in that business. That's why the Hollywood people make the most money in this business in the production space because massive margins with it. But.
Dario07:36Hmm.
Tyler Mose07:51you gotta start selling one -on -one, like reaching out to people, asking for introductions as far as the people that you see other folks are connected to on LinkedIn, and then, you know, establishing yourself as a resource compared to just like trying to force it down their throats as far as that, that, that like, you know, are you gonna buy now? No. Okay. Well, you know, kiss my ass. And it's like,
Dario08:59Do you stay in touch with them? Like bring them out to meet, like, you know, lunches, stuff like that, just stays top of mind? No?
Kyrill08:59No, it didn't.
Tyler Mose09:04No, not lunches and things like that. Like just reach out via email, via phone as far as just to check in. I mean, we definitely do client lunches here and there. We've done client events. We've rented suites at baseball stadiums and things along those lines.
Kyrill10:23Yeah, what was I gonna say? Sorry, nevermind. I've already missed what I was gonna say.
Dario10:31I wanted to go into like your past a little bit like so you used you were You started you started your first agency and then you stopped and you started match point I'm just curious what made you stopped that first one?
Tyler Mose10:46didn't get along with the former co -founder anymore. He wanted to go full agency and like he was trying to get people on as far as with these like super low like social content packages or monthly retainer packages and starting at like a thousand dollars a month and I'm just like dude I'm like
Dario11:31it's a, okay.
Tyler Mose11:32you need to take money and pay for whatever percentage of service or employee or software, and then you need to take a percentage of that and put it in your pocket too. And if you're just moving money and not making money on it, you're wasting your time. You're spinning your wheel.
Dario11:37Yeah.
Dario11:51I figured you guys were making something at least, but it seems like it was just break even, no?
Kyrill11:56Well, the other.
Tyler Mose11:57We were making good money. We were making good money and all, but here's the situation that you run into with these agencies too, is that the more services you offer, the more specialists you need to do it. And when you're getting to the point that you're doing 60 to 70 projects a month,
Dario12:18Thanks a lot.
Kyrill12:29my God.
Tyler Mose12:39And you don't care because we're just like, we scaled. We for sure scaled. But I don't want to brag about working 24 -7. I want to brag about doing large projects and doing less projects, but at a higher profit margin. That's how you can scale these businesses. You cannot be running around, I know there's a thousand YouTubers, probably more than that, talking about how they're making $10 ,000 a month.
Dario13:09Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Kyrill13:11I love that. I love that. Yeah.
Tyler Mose13:14Yeah, and it's like, it's like they don't tell you like, I'm doing 40 projects a month for $250. And like, it's just you can't scale. That's like, you know, the realtors get to the same point. It's like, you know, do you want to be in the $200 ,000 average sale size or do you want to be in the two million? Do you want to do you want to make a $6 ,000 profit or do you want to make a $60 ,000 profit?
Dario13:22Yeah.
Tyler Mose13:42depending on how you've got it set up. It's just, and usually the larger projects and the larger contract value take less time. So it's just, you always want to be in higher margin businesses. I don't care, I'll never try to sell candy bars. I'll put it that way. Since, you know, little league baseball.
Kyrill13:42Yeah.
Dario14:05I think people get stuck in the productizing mindset where it's like…
Kyrill14:05Yeah.
Kyrill14:12Yeah.
Dario14:12Businesses that sell a product always end up making more money because you can scale bigger than a service based business. But I think there comes a point where you can't apply that to something like our industry that well, because then you get into the problem you were having where it's like you do 60, 70 projects, but you still need manpower behind each one of those projects. It's not like you're selling like a water bottle where it's like, okay, you just need.
Tyler Mose14:36Yeah.
Dario14:39A couple factory workers and the machines do most of the bulk labor. Like when it comes to a video and all that, it's like people doing bulk labor.
Kyrill14:44Yeah, not to mention the fact that a lot of these projects are gonna be, you're gonna be like fighting, it's like a, what is that saying where you're kind of like pricing yourself downward, you know, because then you have to be competitive with other businesses who are providing very similar products, right? So you're always trying to give like as much value to the client if you're gonna make it a product. But the other problem is, to your point, Tyler, is that would you rather be doing like, for example,
Tyler Mose14:46Mm -hmm.
Kyrill15:11making $50 ,000 in revenue, but $10 ,000 profit or making $500 ,000 revenue, but still $10 ,000 profit, right? It's like scaling does not necessarily mean growing your workload. It's more so growing the value you create for your business, whatever way that might be. That is the right way to kind of think the right kind of mindset in terms of how to properly scale business. Like increase the value for your business, not the workload only.
Dario15:19Yeah.
Tyler Mose15:28Yeah.
Tyler Mose15:39Not all revenue is good revenue. Like not all revenue is good revenue from the perspective of like the time investment in it. Like I have a friend that told me he will not do anything anymore and he's super successful. He told me he will not do anything that equates to a $5 ,000 an hour return for him. And I'm just like, you know, man, good for you. But like, yeah, I was like, good for you. And like,
Dario16:01my god, okay.
Kyrill16:04Wow.
Tyler Mose16:09You know, you have to say no to this stuff. It's like, I can't tell you…
Dario16:20Mm -hmm.
Tyler Mose16:44I'm like, you are literally asking for like, not only every member of my team outside of sales, so five total people to be on, involved in this project, and you need this from soup to nut. You need creative scripting, production, 2D animation, post -production, and there's gonna be 50 rounds of edits probably, just based on like legal that you're dealing with. Because yeah, you deal with some of these like pharma, med device, like large,
Kyrill17:06my god.
Dario17:08Yeah.
Tyler Mose17:14international entities. It ain't just you and the CMO or the creative director making edits on this. This is going to legal, this is going to the CEO, this is going to partners, this is going to individual government entities to review and…
Dario17:19Legal.
Tyler Mose17:30Like they basically like wanted us to do this for about 20 % of what we initially proposed on it. And I was like, God, I'm like, how do I make this work? I was like, how do I make this work? How do I make this work? And then I was just like, no, I'm like, what's going to happen here is what's happened in the past. Tyler, like, don't be an idiot. Like what's going to happen is, is this is going to drive down your margins, suck your team's time and energy and drive you nuts. And you're.
Kyrill17:38Whoa!
Dario17:38What? Nah, man.
Dario17:50Yeah.
Tyler Mose18:00You're probably going to lose a client out of it because you're going to get annoyed at some point. But that's the thing.
Dario18:06You know what bugs me about that is that it's a big client. Like we've had times where it's like a smaller client and we're like, you know what? I would like to add this piece to our portfolio because it'll make it easier to pitch like a similar type of product in the future. But then you go like, okay, it's a smaller client, smaller budget. Like you're a little more understanding. But when it's like a big like triple A client like that, you're like, yeah, I know you have the money. Like why are you being this like cheap, you know?
Kyrill18:28Yeah.
Tyler Mose18:32Yeah, it's, and I mean, that's the thing about it. And like, we did this project a couple of days ago that like, we walked into these people's office and I was like, I can't believe they were so hard in the negotiations on us. I'm like, I'm like, wow. I'm like, they've got like every type of protein bar snack and like drink in like three huge fridges. I was like, yeah, I'm just like, yeah, I'm just like.
Dario18:54How do you think they afford it? my God. Dude, we had a story. So one time we were doing the gold story. So we were doing a project one time. I forget how we got connected. We won't mention the name, but we got connected to this company through an intermediary who works at this big media.
Kyrill18:56I know by nickel and diming their vendors.
Tyler Mose19:01Wow!
Kyrill19:04The gold, the gold. Yeah, even I immediately thought of it.
Kyrill19:15It was a contact of mine. It was a contact of mine that I met. Yeah. Yeah.
Dario19:23So anyways, we got hired to shoot this like, it weren't called podcasts at the time. It was called like a roundtable discussion. And,
Kyrill19:30Yeah, that's the new round -table podcast or the new round -table discussion. Yeah, that's hilarious.
Dario19:33The new round table discussion. Yeah. So we're before we film it, we're just talking with the guys and they're part of this mining company and they're showing us like these gold cubes that they had and they just put them on the table. We're like the public table. We're playing around with them and everything. I turn out the kill. I'm like, do you really? They were like 12 cubes of that was like, you realize like six of those is what we're getting paid for this whole thing. I was like, they should just hand us like, I was like, they should just hand us like six, six of these and it would have been fine. Right.
Kyrill19:46They just plopped it on the table.
Kyrill19:57Well, we didn't know, we didn't know. They said.
Dario20:03And yada yada we do the project. Months go by like follow ups, where's the money? Like blah blah blah blah. And we eventually did, it was only 3000 bucks. It was like one of our first projects like way back in 2014 when we first started. Anyways, we had to like basically tell them it's like, look, we're gonna like do a copyright strike on your YouTube video. And then they ended up paying us quickly. But the irony is that like they had these six gold cubes that were basically our salary. I was like, could have just handed us.
Kyrill20:11It was only $3 ,000, it wasn't that much.
Kyrill20:29Right there. Each cube was worth $500 and it was like this big.
Dario20:33Could have, yeah, yeah. yeah, they were like tiny. They were like less than a centimeter. And it was just funny. Like it's like, you could have just handed that and yeah. But they were being like so cheap about like paying. It's like, what's going on here? Like.
Tyler Mose20:42It's tough, man.
Tyler Mose20:47Totally, no, I hear you. And that's the thing. And unfortunately, we could sit here and complain about client issues. We can complain about contractor issues. Biggest thing I've had trouble consistently maintaining in this business are the videographers, the actual people that do the on -site production.
Dario22:06Ha ha.
Tyler Mose22:12You know, the thing is, it's just interview and B -roll, but we're literally showing up with like $200 ,000 worth of stuff to do this. And the tech gets upgraded quickly. It literally changes so fast. It's like Red's coming out with a new camera every year, multiple cameras every year. And it's tough. It's tough, but it's kind of like my grandfather said to me, he said to me,
Dario22:58Hahaha.
Dario23:10Yeah.
Tyler Mose23:10that makes me hundreds of millions of dollars and I just hang out on the beach with my wife all day long? No, no, not gonna be, not yet.
Dario23:17You mentioned the videographers are tricky for you. So why is that? Why are you having a tough time with them?
Tyler Mose23:27You know, I don't know what the situation with the videographers are. I think that like…
Dario25:05I'm kind of like like so is it because just to clarify what the issue might be is it because maybe like they want to get like a certain creative shot and you're short on time like this that that type of argument or
Tyler Mose25:15No, I mean, we do all corporate stuff. Yeah, like attitude. We do corporate stuff. So it's like, yeah, it's like you get a lot of these people that want to do like narrative docs or skate videos or like if I had it my way, we'd do nothing but snowboarding videos and wakeboarding videos, but like good luck getting paid doing that. And like, it's…
Kyrill25:17I think he means attitude, that's what I got.
Dario25:33Ha ha ha.
Kyrill25:34Yeah.
Dario25:36Sponsored by GoPro.
Kyrill25:37Right?
Tyler Mose25:39Yeah, go go go pro the the greatest like viral marketing I wouldn't even call it viral like consumer marketing like brand in and Red Bull in history But and Nike, but well, let's just say athletics brands, but I think that it's a lot of these people
Dario25:52Yeah.
Tyler Mose26:00want to be the next big thing in production or the next like shooter as far as with it. And like fact of the matter is it's really hard to like earn a living in this space. Like once you get out and you're a freelancer or an operator or whatever. And yeah, I think a lot of them want to do these like super creative projects, but like you got to pay the bills and you got to keep your lights on.
Dario26:29Hmm, okay.
Kyrill26:29Yeah, so is it kind of like the way they conduct themselves on a corporate set of like maybe an I don't care about this type attitude? Because I've heard of stories of some shooters being like that sometimes on set. Is that kind of what you have been running into a little bit or is it a little different?
Tyler Mose26:47So.
Dario28:21Hot take.
Kyrill28:21Well said, well said, well said. It's like.
Tyler Mose28:24Yeah, I mean, it's the truth. Like, we all got to do what we want to do. Like, I mean, I'm 15 years on my own at this point. I'm unemployable. Like, I'm literally unemployable. Like, I couldn't go back and work for somebody else.
Kyrill28:39Yeah, I mean, if you've been doing it for so long on your own, of course, it doesn't make sense. But yeah, like for anyone who's like jumping into the space, like if you're also going to go into it with the mindset of just it's only a paycheck, also still do a good job though, if you're going to do that, right? Like actually, actually do the work, be part of a team, you know, that's the other thing a lot of people don't realize is it's not always sometimes about the work. It's about like being in the trenches with people, you know, and.
Tyler Mose29:06Yeah.
Kyrill29:07being with a team because you never know where those connections can lead down the road. It's like, you know, it's like, hey, remember that really dry corporate shoot that we had to really get through, but you know, it was still fun because this and this we did or whatever. And then they call you up for some creative project a few years later down the road because they remember you were reliable. You were great to work with, which is that is the one thing that a lot of people in this industry need to remember is that be a fun person to work with.
Tyler Mose29:40Totally, don't. Yeah, yeah. Like, you know, you think that like the corporate recruitment video you're shooting is like below you because you want to do music videos, then don't do the corporate. Like, go do music videos. Good luck. Like, and good luck getting paid.
Dario29:56Yeah.
Kyrill29:57Go be broke.
Tyler Mose29:59You might just I always I always joke with like our interns that we get from the art schools and whatnot that say they want to do that. I'm always like, I'm like, I'm like, dude, you need to realize, like a lot of those people doing those music videos, we had some guy trying to get us to do. We get all these calls every year. People like trying to get us to do music videos. And I'm like, I'm like, sorry, dude, we don't want to get paid and all the weed we can smoke and all the all the all the booze we can drink as far as on set. I'm just like, we're good, man. So.
Kyrill30:19my god.
Dario30:22Hehehehe. Hehehehe.
Tyler Mose30:29Yeah.
Dario30:30Interesting.
Kyrill30:31They're always reaching out. Like I, we see them once in a while coming through. It's like, Hey, we got this cutting edge new song that's coming out. We need a music video for it. It's like, how much do you charge? It's like,
Dario30:44We were getting that so much at the beginning. Now it's just my inbox is filled with the voiceover actors and like just spam from like, I can grow AI spam. I can grow your SEO, like stuff like that. So annoying.
Kyrill30:53AI, AI spam.
Tyler Mose30:59Yeah, lead generation, lead generation as far as with that. I had a voiceover artist call me two days ago. It's totally hilarious. He calls me and he poses, he's speaking in Donald Trump's voice. And he's like, he's like, Tyler, this is, this is, this is president Trump. I'm calling you. We need your, we need your assistance for a campaign video that we're looking to create. We, we, he was like, we, we know it's going to be a huge success. You're very talented. You and.
Kyrill31:12That's good.
Tyler Mose31:29the team were absolutely enthralled to potentially be working with you. We need to chat with you. When can you meet? And I'm like, and at first I was like, this is a, this is a robo call. And then I hear the dude laugh and I'm like, I'm like, this is one of my, I'm like, this is one of my buddies. And I was like, I was like, who is this? And he was like, I'm actually a voiceover artist. And I was like, damn. I'm like, that was good.
Dario31:35What the fuck is this?
Kyrill31:44He laughed.
Dario31:47Hahaha.
Dario31:51That was good That's actually that's pretty good I'm not gonna lie. I can't stand them, but I would take his number down
Kyrill31:56That's actually not bad. That's something good. It's better than the…
Kyrill32:04That guy deserves a call.
Tyler Mose32:05I see, yeah. Man, that's wild about like with, see, that's the thing too is like, if you go the contract route in this, I mean, obviously like, I'm not gonna hire somebody like, I mean, unless we get a client that we have to hire like a full -time voiceover artist, which I highly doubt will ever happen. But,
Dario32:30For voiceover? Like Voices .com?
Dario32:38Voices .com.
Tyler Mose32:39Yeah, I don't think we've used that one. We usually primarily just use VoiceBunny, but man, they jack up those rates of those people like six or seven X. It's crazy as far as, yeah, because we found them individually before to like contract them. And yeah, like, and we presented the script because a lot of those, you get a quote from the site, you don't get a quote from the actual artist within it to start.
Dario32:49really?
Kyrill32:51Is it?
Dario32:55Yeah.
Dario33:07okay, okay.
Tyler Mose33:08So like one, this company wanted $6 ,000 for like a two and a half minute read as far as on this. We find the individual artist and I'm like, this is what it is. And he was like, it's gonna be $750. And I was like, I was just like, damn dude.
Dario33:21Ha!
Kyrill33:25Dude dude Yeah
Kyrill33:35Yeah, I mean, like the one we use, the one we use is voices .com and the difference with that one compared to yours is that you basically post like a job where you set the budget and the rate for it and all the parameters, this is where it's gonna be broadcast, this is how long in perpetuity, yada yada. And then.
Tyler Mose33:36raised.
Dario33:54We should get in touch with the voiceover act that we're using for our latest project and see what he would actually charge instead of what the website would charge.
Kyrill34:02I think what the website does is they take like a 10 or 15 % commission off of it. So it's kind of standard stuff. Yeah, like with the, that's why I'm saying Voices is really good because everyone understands how it works there. That's why some of them propose slightly higher rates, you know, just to kind of compensate for those percentages. But yeah, so like once we make the job posting where we ask people to do like a five or 10 second read just so we can hear their voice to hear how it sounds.
Dario34:07is that it? okay, okay.
Kyrill34:29they all apply and then we just kind of go through filter them and then choose who we want to hire. And it's actually a really good system that's helps you get access to like a larger talent pool and a reliable platform where you're not just dealing with some random cold outreach person that's like, hey, sorry if I'm reaching out for the 15th time, you know, and just tell me if I'm a way out of left field here.
Dario34:48How's that voice bunny said? Is it the same thing?
Tyler Mose34:55Probably. I mean, it's probably I mean, you just go in there and search like mail 30s baritone voice. Yeah, it's total search. It's total search on voicebunny .com. But yeah, so that's probably that's probably why it's more expensive because of the back end and the development as far as the actual site. So.
Kyrill35:01No, that's more search. That's more search.
Dario35:06okay. okay.
Dario35:16Check out, check out voices .com. I think it might be a little easier for you.
Tyler Mose35:19Okay, cool. Yeah, I'll check it out.
Kyrill35:19No, especially for simple, especially for simple and smaller type projects because yeah, like not every project can afford, not every corporate video can afford a $5 ,000 voiceover artist when the budget is 10 ,000.
Dario35:32It's usually for commercials. Yeah, it's usually for commercials.
Tyler Mose35:34Yeah, yeah, yeah, for sure. Yeah, yeah, yeah, sure. We'll contract that voiceover artist and then with everything else, like our costs are going to be $7 ,000 and we'll make $3 ,000. 30 % margins sound good. So, I mean, but see, that's the biggest thing as far as within this space is like, you got to maintain margins. Like we literally will not do anything anymore that, I mean…
Dario35:44Ha ha ha.
Kyrill35:47Yeah.
Tyler Mose36:00there's maybe one or two projects a year that will go below it because I just want them for the portfolio or the relationships where we might go below like 60 percent. Like we're always trying to keep 60 percent margins. But we have office space. We have a large payroll. We have production vans, gear. Like we have salaries, benefits, 401Ks, like entire entire. We have a we have servers like it's a lot of stuff. And if we
Dario36:35So that 60 % would go into all that stuff, right?
Tyler Mose36:38And paying yours truly too because I'm not I'm not just you know working to pay payroll
Dario36:44Yeah.
Kyrill36:45Right, so technically that's margins on a per project basis rather than like margins on total revenue or, yeah.
Tyler Mose36:53per project, I do it per project. Like if you, cause if you get too grandiose as far as with that, cause I found that out real quickly in this business. I was like, look at our average deal size because of these like eight to 10 projects a year that jack it way up. And it's like, no dude, like take away those projects and your average deal size is super small. Like very small and.
Dario37:45the expenses.
Tyler Mose37:46Yeah, you're taking on a ton of shitty projects, dude. Like, if you cut out probably 30 to 40 % of those, you would be able to pay yourself nicely. But you're just moving money. You're not making money.
Kyrill38:02Wow. Yeah, like.
Dario38:02So how big is your team right now? So it's you and two other salespeople. And who else is there?
Tyler Mose38:10two shooters, animator, a production director, and then one editor as far as with it. We contract everything else out.
Kyrill38:19seven, eight people roughly.
Dario38:21I think it's eight.
Tyler Mose38:22Yeah, so it's seven. It's a once contract as far as contract, but like I consider her kind of full time as far as at this point. So but that's another thing like nobody tell at least in the US anyways, you guys are in Canada and all my entrepreneurship classes in high school and college as far as with it.
Dario38:24seven, sorry. once a contract.
Tyler Mose38:43Nobody talked about employment tax. Nobody talked about unemployment tax. Nobody talked about the cost of benefits and how those continually go up every single year because it's like, yeah, I'm paying this person 75, this person 120, this person 90. Okay. It's like, no, no, no, no. You're actually paying them about 12 to 15 % more than that. So a $90 ,000 employees more like 102 to 105.
Dario39:08Yeah.
Kyrill39:08Yeah.
Tyler Mose39:13and then on and on and on as far as with it. So it's like your margins get eaten and eaten and eaten and this is how it is. It's just how it works.
Kyrill39:24You know why they don't teach that in university? Cause I was wondering myself, okay, why wouldn't they be teaching a lot of this stuff? Well, that's one too. That's one. The second thing is they're only teaching you the basics where it's like, most of you are not even going to get past making a business plan. So what's the point of teaching you about how to deal with employees?
Dario39:30Because they want you to be an employee, that's why. They don't want you to be.
Dario39:42Yeah. No, the thing is the thing. No, it's not even that, Carol. It's there weren't they weren't they weren't even like business people teaching it. They were just people that read about it. People that read about it. What do they know? What do they know about like a struggle and all that stuff selling? Have you sold anything?
Tyler Mose39:43Yeah.
Kyrill39:51That's the thing, yeah. my god, yeah.
Tyler Mose40:00Yeah, see that's the thing is like everybody that tells me that they want to start their own business, I always tell them like good luck because this is a whole other lifestyle. Like yeah, like you can cut out and I don't know, go play golf, work out, like whatever you want to do as far as with it like some days out of the week, maybe in the afternoon. But I've always believed in work life integration. Like tonight I have a networking event I have to go.
Dario40:42yeah, yeah, yeah.
Kyrill40:45that's cool.
Dario40:51Nice.
Dario40:56I am ace.
Tyler Mose41:01Anyways, and then I have a call at 9 p It's pre -production call with a surgical group and it's the only time they could do they're like they're a startup Surgical group that bunch of doctors left and went out on their own a couple of surgeons focused in orthopedics It's the only time they could do they're like dude. We're like building this business It's just how it goes as far as with it. But I always say to entrepreneurs
Dario41:47I thought it goes down. Doesn't go down? Okay.
Tyler Mose41:52Yeah, entrepreneurs, I've a buddy of mine that's a VC told me he was like entrepreneurs have basically like a 10 year runway as far as with every business that they start as far as within it because they burn out after 10 years or they lose interest. Like how many people do you know that maybe like start a nice little business and then try to start another one immediately? And then they've got like a couple of like businesses that are just.
Kyrill42:22Yeah.
Dario42:32on your website it says that I think I forgot to mention this earlier before our listeners you guys are based out of Chicago but you're also based out of Indianapolis?
Tyler Mose42:42We have sub -offices in Indianapolis. We have…
Dario43:25really? You know what? Yeah, yeah, you know what? You know what? You might be right because I technically I do the sales and I do have a struggle with laziness.
Kyrill43:26Hahaha
Tyler Mose43:38It's tough, man, getting kicked in the face all the time.
Kyrill43:38He's like, yeah, I'm running errands today, right Daria?
Dario43:41Yeah, running errands. But when we start to sell, we start to sell, you know?
Tyler Mose43:48Yeah, for sure, for sure. No 100%. Cool.
Kyrill43:50There's a thing to needing like sometimes like, you know, like when you do like stretches of like intense work for a while and then like you need like just a little bit to yourself just to kind of reset and recharge. I think that's kind of like what you were mentioning as well about, you know, one of the benefits of working for yourself is that sometimes you need to be able to do that in order to be really productive in the other times as well. Cause it's like, you can't be running on point like.
Tyler Mose44:53Totally, yeah, and you can't mask it with caffeine. Like that'll work for a while. That'll work for a little while, but like you've got to, I always say entrepreneurship without exercise, because I work out a ton, is a death sentence, like literally. So, but it's kind of how it goes. But fellas, I got to run actually. We have a shoot we have to go to right now.
Kyrill44:57No. No.
Kyrill45:14Yeah. Yeah, no worries. We…
Dario45:15It's all good, it's all good. So guys, if you want to find Tyler, you can go to matchpointstudio .com. They're based out of Chicago and so Indianapolis is that official. Do you want to push that or?
Tyler Mose45:29We have, yeah, I mean, we're one of the highest rated production companies in Indianapolis. So we have offices, yeah, we have offices in Indianapolis and Lafayette, Indiana.
Dario45:35wow, okay, nice, nice.
Dario45:40Okay, nice, nice. So yeah, if you guys need to reach out to Tyler, whether you want to ask him some questions or you need to get your project done, make sure to reach out to him. And yeah, so Tyler and I got to run. So thanks again for coming on the show.
Kyrill45:40Nice.
Tyler Mose45:54Hey, thanks for having me, fellas. My pleasure. Bye.
Kyrill45:54Great chatting with you.
