Episode 49
How to Navigate Client Relationships (ft. Mileshko)
Zach Yokum did not set out to run a video company. He came out of film school and joined an Atlanta photography studio, then Tom Mileshko Photography, to help it shoot its very first videos. More than a decade later he is Creative Director at Mileshko, where video has gone from roughly 3 percent of the business to about 70 percent, and the team has grown from two people to twenty. That growth, he is quick to point out, was exponential rather than steady: years of quiet reps that paid off all at once.
In this episode, Zach joins Dario and Kyrill for a candid, tactical conversation about the part of the business that lives off camera: how to navigate client relationships in corporate video. They get into the real difference between a retainer and a reservation, why the dates in your contract are your best protection when a client causes the delay, how splitting an invoice changes your cash flow, and the approval workflow Mileshko swears by, delivering versions instead of drafts and running a single live review so most jobs close in one round of revisions.
Key Takeaways
- Grow by listening. Every service Mileshko added, video, graphic design, animation, came from asking existing clients what they needed next. Trust in one service is the on-ramp to the next.
- Name the thing you actually want. A retainer means paying for your creative priority with no defined project. A reservation means pre-booking time for known deliverables. Most owners who say retainer really want reservations.
- Guard a retainer with use-it-or-lose-it. Loose retainers invite the Q4 rush, where a client ignores you for eight months then tries to spend the whole pot at once. Hard guardrails are the only way it wins for the vendor.
- Put the dates in the contract. The signed timeline is what lets you hold the line, kindly, when a client causes the delay. A buffer clause (availability not guaranteed 14 days past delivery) protects the edit calendar.
- Split the invoice into three. Billing pre-production, production, and post separately smooths cash flow, and accounting teams often just pay all three at once, de-risking the back end.
- Deliver versions, not drafts. Corporate clients cannot see past a rough cut the way creatives can, so bake color and graphics into version one. A finished-looking first cut keeps most jobs to a single round of revisions.
- Run a live V1 review. Get every stakeholder in one hour to watch together. It kills the asynchronous back and forth and cuts total comments, because the creative can justify a choice on the spot.
- Speak into it, do not just approve it. You need everyone who has to speak into the video in the room, not everyone who has to approve it. Do that on V1 and it clears final sign-off nine times out of ten.
- Build a team so you can work in your strength. Zach’s turning point was a Roger Deakins documentary. The lesson: get out of the editing chair and let someone who loves it own that part, or burnout is one busy season away.
Timestamps
From Photography to a Majority-Video Shop
Mileshko did not start as a video company. It began in 1986 as Tom Mileshko Photography, founded by the son of a Belarusian immigrant who left a sales job to shoot anything that moved. Around 2011, clients who already trusted Tom with a camera started asking a new question: you can just flip the mode on that DSLR, right? Do you shoot video? He did not, so he brought in a young film-school graduate, Zach Yokum, to help start a video arm. Ten years later the tables have turned. Video went from roughly 3 percent of the business to about 70 percent, photo is 15, and the rest is graphic design and animation, while the team grew from two people to twenty. Zach is careful about the shape of that curve: it was exponential, not steady, the payoff of years of unglamorous reps arriving all at once.
The engine was not a marketing plan. It was listening. Every new service Mileshko added came from the same question asked of existing clients: what do you need us to be able to provide? Zach’s analogy is the plumber who gets asked to handle the electrical because he is already in the bathroom, and says yes so he can be the one-stop shop. That instinct maps cleanly onto the corporate market, where buyers would rather hire one partner who can flex than assemble a bench of specialists. If you are weighing that same expansion, our breakdown of what a corporate video actually covers is a useful map of the territory.
“So much of the client relationship is trust.”
Zach Yokum, MileshkoRetainer or Reservation? Name What You Actually Want
The retainer is the holy grail every production owner claims to want, and Mileshko is refreshingly honest that they are still figuring it out. The trouble, Zach argues, is that most creatives are using the wrong word. A true retainer is a law-firm arrangement: the client pays for the right to your creative priority whenever they call, without knowing yet what the project will be. What most owners actually want is a reservation, pre-booked time for known deliverables across the year. Kyrill’s reframe is the takeaway: when a creative says they want more retainers, they usually mean they want more reservations booked months out, so they can plan the calendar and the cash flow.
“You are paying for the right to my creative priority whenever you call me.”
Zach Yokum, MileshkoThe reason to be careful with the real thing is the failure mode. Sign a loose retainer and a client can go dark for eight months, then try to spend the whole pot in Q4, landing a quarter of work in a window built for a twelfth of it. Zach’s only fix that protects the vendor is a hard use-it-or-lose-it structure with clear guardrails, closer to a gym membership than an open bar. Dario’s softer alternative is proactive engagement: go to the client every quarter with a proposed slate and the budget the retainer covers, so the relationship stays warm and the calendar stays legible. Either way, the retainer question is really a pricing question, and our guide to how much a video actually costs and the show’s earlier deep dive on how to create a retainer both sit right underneath this conversation.
Put the Dates in the Contract
The most repeated piece of practical advice in the episode is the least glamorous: put the dates in the contract. Both shops use the delivery schedule as a safety net. When the client causes the delay, an SME travels for two weeks, or the script keeps slipping, the signed timeline is what lets you say, kindly, that a project pushed down the road has to wait its turn. Mileshko goes a step further with a buffer clause: fourteen days past the final delivery date, availability is no longer guaranteed. It acknowledges that life happens while still protecting the edit calendar.
There is a real cost hiding behind the politeness. Lapse runs lean with freelance editors, and Dario is candid that the scary version is the one where a specific editor is booked when a stalled project suddenly comes back to life, forcing a replacement that eats the post-production margin. Mileshko manages the money differently by splitting each project invoice into three, project management and pre-production, then production, then post, though Dario notes accounting teams often just pay all three at once, which quietly de-risks the back end. If you want the mechanics of how those numbers get built, our videographer day-rate guide lays out the underlying cost structure, and the show’s 7 tips for video contracts covers the clauses worth standardizing. The exact scenario Dario is sweating, an animation project stuck waiting on a client script, is a good reminder that the timeline you write down is the one you get to enforce.
Deliver Versions, Not Drafts
Mileshko’s approval workflow is the sharpest operational idea in the episode, and it starts with a mantra stuck on every laptop: fix it in pre. If the script, the shot list, and every internal approver are settled before the first frame is shot, revisions collapse. On the delivery side, Zach draws a hard line between the film world and the corporate one. Creatives can read a rough cut and ignore the missing color and graphics. Corporate clients cannot. So Mileshko bakes color correction and graphics into the very first cut the client sees and calls it a version, not a draft, which is exactly why they can usually hold a job to a single round of revisions. Our guide to the corporate video production process walks through where that discipline pays off.
“We believe in delivering versions, not drafts.”
Zach Yokum, MileshkoThe other half is the live V1 review. Instead of collecting asynchronous notes where one stakeholder loves the font and another hates it and nobody has the authority to break the tie, Mileshko books a single hour and gets every decision-maker in the room to watch together. It cuts the back and forth, and it actually reduces the number of comments, because the creative in the room can justify a choice on the spot (we cut to B-roll because the spokesperson flubbed the line) and watch the objection get retracted. Lapse solved the same conflict a different way, by requiring one named person to make the final call on every feedback thread. Both shops land on the same principle, worked out in the show’s earlier conversation on pre-production and collaboration: decide who owns the decision before the notes start.
Zach’s most quotable distinction closes the loop. You do not need everyone who has to approve the video in that room. You need everyone who has to speak into it. The VP who signs off does not belong in the V1 review, but the director of safety on a safety video does. Do that due diligence on version one, and it clears final approval nine times out of ten.
Trust, Team, and the Name on the Door
Underneath the tactics runs one theme: trust is the whole business. It is what let a photo studio sell video to the same clients, and it is what a live review protects when you tell a client, believe it or not, that was the best take. It is also why Zach is emphatic about building a team rather than doing everything yourself. His turning point was a documentary on cinematographer Roger Deakins, a film-school hero whose technical brilliance had not bought him the family life Zach wanted. The lesson was not to shoot less, but to get out of the editing chair and let someone who loves that work own it, so the whole operation is not one burnout away from collapse. That is the same team-versus-solo calculation Lapse thinks about constantly, and the show’s episode on empowering your team sits right alongside it, as does the sibling conversation on the art of client relationships.
The name itself is a small case study in positioning. Mileshko is a Belarusian surname with Greek roots meaning hardworking, which is a tidy thing to signal to a client, but the company kept it for a more pragmatic reason. Like Deloitte, a name that says nothing about consulting until the reputation makes it mean consulting, Mileshko can come to simply mean the creative partner you call to get it done. And Zach admits the deciding factors were unglamorous: no competition on the name, and a wide-open search and domain landscape, the same SEO logic that quietly shapes so many naming decisions in this industry.
Frequently Asked Questions
Who is Zach Yokum?
The Creative Director at Mileshko, a video production company in Atlanta, Georgia. He joined out of film school to help the studio, then Tom Mileshko Photography, add video, which now makes up the majority of the business.
What is Mileshko?
An Atlanta video production company (legally Mileshko Creative Imaging, LLC) that grew from a 1986 photography studio into a media team of about twenty, producing corporate video, photography, graphic design, and animation. Site: mileshko.com.
What is the difference between a retainer and a reservation in video production?
A retainer means the client pays for the right to your creative priority whenever they call, with no defined project. A reservation means pre-booking time for known deliverables across the year. Most owners who say they want retainers actually want reservations.
What does deliver versions, not drafts mean?
It means baking color correction and graphics into the very first cut a corporate client sees, rather than sending a bare rough cut. Corporate clients cannot see past imperfections the way creatives can, so a finished-looking version one keeps revisions to a single round.
Where does the name Mileshko come from?
It is a Belarusian surname with Greek roots meaning hardworking. The company was formerly Tom Mileshko Photography, and briefly Mileshko Creative Imaging, before settling on the single name, helped by having no competition on search or the domain.
The Hosts
Dario Nouri and Kyrill Lazarov are the co-founders of Lapse Productions, a Toronto video production company, and the hosts of Creatives Grab Coffee, a weekly show about the business of video production.
About
Creatives Grab Coffee is a podcast about the business behind video production: sales, strategy, pricing, team building, and everything that happens off camera. New episodes every week on YouTube, Spotify, and Apple Podcasts.
Lapse Productions is a Toronto-based video production company serving tech, finance, healthcare, and manufacturing clients with corporate, promotional, event, and testimonial video. New to commissioning video? Start with our guide to the types of corporate video.
Mileshko (legally Mileshko Creative Imaging, LLC) is a video production company in Atlanta, Georgia, founded by Tom Mileshko with Zach Yokum as Creative Director. What began in 1986 as a one-person photography studio is now a team of about twenty producing corporate video, photography, graphic design, and animation for businesses across the United States. Learn more at mileshko.com.
Full Transcript
Read the full episode transcript
Auto-generated and lightly edited for readability. It may contain small errors. For chapter deep-links into the video, use the Timestamps section above.
Dario Nouri00:01Alright guys, welcome to episode 49 of Creatives Grab Coffee. Today we have Zach from Mileshko. Zach, welcome to the show.
Zach Yokum00:09Hey, you nailed the pronunciation too. Props.
Dario Nouri00:12It sounds like Eastern European, so I have a lot of friends that are Eastern Europeans. I kind of, I was like, I can nail this one.
Zach Yokum00:20Well done, well done. Full marks.
Kyrill Lazarov00:23You know why it's probably spelled like that is because that's how it was written and spelled in Eastern European. So they took the English way of spelling it to be exactly like that because that's one.
Dario Nouri00:23Thank you.
Zach Yokum00:33Yeah, I mean, you're not far off. It was definitely an Ellis Island machination. It was actually originally M-E-L-E. And then they're like, eh, we'll throw an I in there. It's more English sounding.
Kyrill Lazarov00:46Hahaha
Dario Nouri00:48That reminds me of the scene in Sopranos where Phil Leotardo is upset. His last name used to be Leonardo and they changed it to Leotardo. Did you remember that episode?
Kyrill Lazarov00:55Hahaha
Zach Yokum00:56Oh, I'm not seeing it, but that tracks. You'd think that someone would have heart and go like, oh, you know what, now that I say that out loud, I don't wanna insult you for the rest of your life, but.
Kyrill Lazarov01:02Bye.
Dario Nouri01:10So interesting story about Zach is they actually reached out to us on our contact swarm on the site and they're like hey we saw your content on LinkedIn it really resonated with us and I was like oh nice and then I checked you guys out I'm like oh they do a lot of cool stuff where they based out of Atlanta Georgia I'm like well what do you know we don't have any guests from Atlanta Georgia so I reached out them like hey you guys want to come on the podcast or what
Zach Yokum01:34Sweet. Yeah, hey, happy to represent the ATL.
Kyrill Lazarov01:35How did you guys?
Dario Nouri01:38Mm-hmm.
Kyrill Lazarov01:38The ATL. How'd you guys find us, by the way?
Zach Yokum01:40Mm-hmm. Yeah, we were just looking for like-minded creatives online and we were thinking, all right, we should get into doing some more podcasts. I'd actually done it on the side. I'm a huge nerd, so anything Marvel, Star Wars, Lord of the Rings, I'm your guy. And we did one during the pandemic, like everyone and their mother seemed like they did. Like, hey, let's start a podcast, because we're at home. But we never thought of doing it for professional purposes. And so we were like, I bet you there's other creatives doing it for professional purposes out there. And so we came across you guys and really liked the content, filled out the contact form and here we are. It's come full circle.
Kyrill Lazarov02:20Amazing, hopefully more and more creatives in different states even start reaching out like yourselves. We'll make our job a little easier too. Ha ha ha.
Dario Nouri02:20Nice, nice.
Dario Nouri02:25Ha! Please do my work, yeah, please do my job for me next time. There's 50 states I gotta get through.
Zach Yokum02:34Well, you know what? Well, yeah, and it's just like, hey, reach out. Like we were like, the worst they can say is no. Like we don't want any Southern accents on this show, so you can't be in. But you talked to someone from, I think it was like North Carolina. So I'm like, hey, we're just two states away. Gotta represent the South. Gotta get that y'all in. Cause you know Atlanta, Atlanta's getting a lot bigger in the film scene. In fact, they now have an official name for Atlanta that I don't know if you've heard. So out West you have Hollywood, but here in Atlanta, it's Yollywood.
Dario Nouri02:43Ha ha.
Dario Nouri02:51Nice.
Dario Nouri03:07Hollywood.
Zach Yokum03:09So…
Kyrill Lazarov03:09He Hollywood that's so good
Zach Yokum03:11Yep, and, and… Go ahead.
Dario Nouri03:12You mentioned you're a big… No, sorry, I was going to say, you mentioned you're a big Marvel fan. It's good for you because they don't do shoot a ton of them over there.
Zach Yokum03:21Oh yeah, in fact, where I live, if I walked a mile straight through the woods, I could go hang out with Spider-Man or go see the Guardians of the Galaxy. So originally it was Pinewood Studios and then they changed the name to Trillith, which strangest name. I was like, what's a Trillith? That sounds like something that I would put on a high T. Well, it does sound maybe like an Infinity Stone, but turns out it's a three stone structure.
Dario Nouri03:30Haha. Nice.
Kyrill Lazarov03:40Triller.
Dario Nouri03:42So you're in infinity still.
Kyrill Lazarov03:45Hahaha
Zach Yokum03:50So everyone's probably heard of a monolith, while a trilith is three stones. And there's your English lesson for the day. But yeah.
Dario Nouri03:56Oh, okay.
Kyrill Lazarov03:56Hmm.
Dario Nouri04:02So why don't you tell us a little bit about your company? Like how'd you start it? Like, and just like brief history.
Zach Yokum04:09Yeah, well, Mileshko actually started out as Tom Mileshko Photography back in 1986. So he was the, the son of the son of an immigrant who came over here from Belarus, so there's that Eastern European connection for you.
Dario Nouri04:17Oh.
Zach Yokum04:26And his father had done photography. He tried to do some sales, uh, after he had gotten out of serving in the army and was like, ah, this isn't for me. You know what? My dad seems to enjoy taking photos. Let me see if I can do this professionally. And he started just taking pictures of anything that moved. I mean, we've all been that freelancer that you're like, wait, you'll pay me to do this thing. Sure. I'll do it. You know, whether it's I'll take a picture of a pop tart or sure. I'll shoot your wedding for 200 bucks. Like I just want to make money doing this. Um, But he, after 30 years, he had built up a fairly successful photography business. And then right around 2011, he started having more and more clients ask, Hey, I heard you can just kind of switch the mode on your DSLR and it can shoot video. Do you, do you shoot video? And he didn't at the time. I mean, his background was photography. And so I was a fresh young pup out of film school that he had met on a random.
Kyrill Lazarov05:14Hehehehe
Zach Yokum05:26uh set and been like hey you want to help me try to like break into video um i heard there's a setting on the camera that if you just switch it shoots video and you know part of the artist inside of me who had been you know shooting on cinema level cameras died a little bit uh but i was like sure i would love to help get video started because now i was that freelancer who wanted to help shoot anything that moved and 10 years later we went from a team of two to now a and we now do a majority of video instead of photo. So the tables have turned to where, like when I started, video was like 3% of the overall business. And now video makes up 70% of our business, and then photo only makes up 15, and then the rest of it's graphic design and animation. So that's a drive-through version of how Mileshko became Mileshko.
Kyrill Lazarov05:55Wow.
Dario Nouri06:14Nice.
Kyrill Lazarov06:19How did you see that growing trend? Oh, sorry, Daria, if you want, you can.
Dario Nouri06:19So in terms of like… Sorry, Kyo, go ahead. Nah, I was gonna ask the same question, so go ahead. Hehehehe.
Zach Yokum06:23What?
Kyrill Lazarov06:28Okay, I'll just, just so we have a clean question for the recording. It's like, how did you see that growing trend switch from photo to video? What do you think was the driving factor in that for you guys?
Zach Yokum06:39listening to our clients, any innovation that we've done at Mileshko throughout our history, I mean up to and including having graphic design as one of our offerings is, hey. what do you need? What do you need us to be able to provide for you? And Tom was just listening to clients that he had served with just photo for years. And then they just started asking, Hey, we already trust you as a photographer. If you did video, we would love to use you as well. So we were, we were kind of like that plumber that was really good at plumbing and then was asked, Hey, do you do electrical as well? Because, you know, you're here in the bathroom and I need new lights. And we're like, we will learn it so that we can be your, your one stop shop. But it just so happened that we then became really good at video and now here we are, we're majority video. But, I mean, ultimately it was just active listening, you know, finding out from your client.
Kyrill Lazarov07:27Ahem.
Zach Yokum07:32And, and at the same time, you also kind of saw in the industry as things were moving to, I mean, back then it was DSLRs, but now you've got mirrorless, you've got these cameras that can shoot both really well. So if you're at a corporate event and they need both photos and a highlight video, you can kind of use the same camera bodies to switch back and forth. So we kind of saw, huh, there's more hybridization than specialization. But, uh, and it depends on where in the industry you are. serve corporate clients and so we just found from corporate they're more interested in a one-stop shop rather than oh we're going to call in a specialist to do just this thing.
Dario Nouri08:12Did you find that your growth from the last 10 years, was it like incremental growth or was there a lot of exponential growth? Because you went from like two people to 20. That's a pretty big, that's a big achievement, right?
Kyrill Lazarov08:12Yeah.
Zach Yokum08:26Right.
Kyrill Lazarov08:26It's like two people a year, essentially, you guys grew to. Two people every year kept joining your team.
Zach Yokum08:31And, and we did not grow like that way at all. Our growth was very more exponential. So I mean, it really is, and I'm sure so many people that own smaller production companies feel this way is like you're putting in all these reps, you're doing all this work and you're not seeing the returns. And then there's just this critical mass of all of that work you did the years prior suddenly pay off. And, and now you're getting to enjoy that harvest. Because actually, you know, like I said, we started out as a team of two and now we're a team of 20. Even last year, we were a team of eight. And then in 2022, we doubled in size. And then we've hired four people this year with most likely another two or three that'll probably come on the bus by the end of the year. So for us, it really was exponential to where all these seeds that we had sown with clients and honestly helping training them to know that, hey, you've known us for years as photo.
Dario Nouri09:04Oh, okay.
Kyrill Lazarov09:05Whoa.
Zach Yokum09:26Did you know we're offering video? In fact, back in 2019, I made the joke. We needed that as a t-shirt is did you know we do video? Cause so much of the client relationship is trust. Like they, they trust you and they come to you because, oh, that's my photo guy. Or, you know, that's my fill in the blank service guy. So there's a lot of education that comes with your clients. Like, did you know we also offer this? And so, uh,
Kyrill Lazarov09:36Hehehehe
Kyrill Lazarov09:44Yeah.
Zach Yokum09:52I felt like in 2019 we were building up steam. The world took a nice little brain break during COVID. And then 2021, again, we kind of picked up the momentum. In 2022, it was just critical mass. And we got business to Wazoo and had to hire team members accordingly. So for us, it was very exponential. It was not incremental at all.
Dario Nouri10:11But was there a big conversion from the photography client base, switching them over into the video services? Or did you guys have also a lot of new leads coming in that you were closing?
Zach Yokum10:21Absolutely.
Zach Yokum10:26Now a lot of it was converting folks that had just known us for photography into video. And you could almost, I've never made a graph. I'm a huge Excel spreadsheets and graphs guy. So I really do need to make this. But as you saw social media moving from more photo static image base to video and reels. And all right, now you've got people making vines, no rip vines and, and Tik TOKs like, I know. What? I know. Uh,
Dario Nouri10:50The vines is old. You dated yourself a second.
Kyrill Lazarov10:50Vines, yeah. Ha ha ha. Ha ha.
Zach Yokum10:57But everything was trending more toward video. And so, hey, we listened to our clients, but also we let them know, hey, I know you've been using us for photo. I know photo has been kind of the gold standard for putting in your newsletter and the email that you're sending out to your folks or posting it for training content. Video is now the way people communicate. Did you know, great news, we offer that. Can we continue to help you in this way? So a lot of it was converting. our photo only clients into video clients.
Kyrill Lazarov11:28you must have had very good relationships with your clients to be able to convert them to a completely different service that they either may not have thought about or were very open to hearing what value it would provide for them, or at least that they would be willing to do it. Not a lot of, especially corporate clients sometimes are not always willing to do that from other perspectives or outside opinions. Like usually they all have their own marketing goals and strategies that they need to do. It's like…
Zach Yokum11:37Mm-hmm.
Kyrill Lazarov11:56And it's like, they hire you for one video, right? And then even though, you know, they need maybe even sometimes two or three other videos, they're not always gonna be wanting to do that at that moment, right? So it's just a kudos to show what kind of good relationships you have with your current existing client base.
Zach Yokum12:07Mm-hmm.
Zach Yokum12:13Well, and, and I mean, you hit the nail on the head is that oftentimes you have to have that trust before they're even willing to listen to your suggestion. Cause so often by the time as a media vendor, a client is coming to you, they already have a pre-baked ask. Like they know this is exactly what I need. I just need you to execute it. So, you know, no, I don't want your suggestions. Just can you meet this date and do it this way, please, and thank you and make sure you don't go over budget. Whereas. One of the reasons I think our growth was exponential and not incremental was trust doesn't move at a linear fashion because, okay, they came to you for that first project. Okay, they did well. They come to you for that second one, that third. And then by that fourth one, they may go, hey, you've done so well on these three. How would you approach this next project? And I'll take that to my boss. And now it's a consultative partnership, not just. Alright, monkey with a camera, execute.
Kyrill Lazarov13:16Yeah, no, 100%. And how would you, what would you say is kind of like your process of going about like throwing those ideas at your clients? Like how do you kind of feel out what they might need or if they're open to kind of listening to some of those ideas?
Zach Yokum13:34Well, I'd say the first thing you have to focus on is just delivering a consistent service experience over and over again, because until they trust that, oh wow, they are going to follow up on their word, they're gonna execute to how we ask them to, then you almost earn your right to have that conversation to, hey, you know, you asked us to do this talking head video that's six minutes long, that's an option, or. have you considered that perhaps we could make you a 90 second video that involves a little bit of animation, a little bit of action, and then maybe have the spokesperson come in for just 30 seconds? Perhaps that would be a more engaging video for you. So you almost have to make that, hey, just execute on what they asked for the first couple of times. And then once the trust is established, then you start creatively suggesting as a way of making them win, because that's, that's what you have to, if they're going to get that buy-in, you have to convince them. hey, here's how you win. Because when someone comes to you with a video, they're ultimately trying to accomplish a goal of, hey, it's not just we need you to make this instructional video, it's we've got a employee base and they're not following this procedure and we need to have them gain buy-in. Okay, so that's your ultimate goal. Well, as the communication experts, may we suggest that, hey, you thought a six minute video with a talking head, that's a method, but. here's one that we think would be a better fit to help you accomplish your goal.
Dario Nouri15:06Have you guys had success with retainer models?
Zach Yokum15:11So to be honest, retainers are something that we're, we are still trying to figure out what is the best method to make sure that both parties win. Because we found that oftentimes we were the ones that are taking the risk by moving into a retainer model because we don't know like, all right, are we gonna make a number of like creative hours that they're pre-buying or okay, we could say, all right, we'll be on retainer to do X amount of videos, but. Then the client comes and makes a ass that's completely out of your original scope. And now you're spinning your tires trying to renegotiate. Well, when we came up with the retainer seven months ago, this is what we thought it was going to be. And now we're having to renegotiate in the middle of it. So not saying that a retainer can't work. I mean, we are. always trying to chat with businesses that work on that method and you're like, so, so how are you doing this? We have not found a way to make it mutually beneficial. We have found that, all right, if we enter into a retainer, wow, they just got a deal on their money because now they pre-bought so far in advance that we're not accounting for inflation or they may have a different, uh, person who's running the helm six months from now. So we just have not found that to be advantageous, but it's.
Kyrill Lazarov16:24Yeah.
Zach Yokum16:30But I'm also not going to say the model can't work depending on what industry and what client you're serving.
Kyrill Lazarov16:37It's, you know, what's funny is that sometimes when we think of retainers in it's, it's like in theory, it sounds like the perfect, the perfect kind of setup, you know, where you get guaranteed work and everybody wins, but you just laid out three or four different reasons why it would not work long term, right?
Dario Nouri16:53The inflation angle alone, I was like, no one's ever thought about that. Yeah, I didn't think about that either.
Kyrill Lazarov16:56I didn't think of that one. Ha.
Zach Yokum16:58Right, well, I was having a conversation with one of my producers the other day, and on paper, this retainer that a client was asking us to get into would make sense, because yeah, you're like, oh, sweet, I can bet on this cash flow, which takes a huge burden off of your mental bandwidth, and oh, yeah, this is a very easily replicatable kind of shoot that we do over and over again, but oh, yeah, 12 months from now. Is that same project going to cost the same for me and the photographer that I'm going to send out to do that thing? Is it going to cost the same? No, it's probably going to be 10% more expensive for me if inflation continues on the same curve. The client just got a steal. So it's figuring out how can it be mutually beneficial. And we haven't cracked that code yet.
Kyrill Lazarov17:43Well, think of it like this. When you're doing the, like say you do a pre-buying of like say 100 hours of video work, you have to give them also a deal. So you're gonna give them a 10% deal off what that rate is there. Then after a year with the inflation or like also all the raises that the employees are gonna get, like say everybody gets a 10% raise, that's a 20% difference in it that you're gonna be bleeding over the course of a year. So yeah.
Zach Yokum18:06Right.
Zach Yokum18:10Well, and something that was kind of a breakthrough for us was realizing, all right, we're creatives. We're in the creative industry. And you're like, well, really we're in the service industry. Like that is ultimately what we're providing because we are.
Dario Nouri18:10That's the profit margin. That's the profit margin gone.
Zach Yokum18:26brought with a challenge or a problem, and then we provide a service. And you see precedent in different service industries or in utilities. Like if I try to sign a three-year contract with my gas utility company, they will literally charge me more per therm than if I sign up for a six-month contract with them. Because they know that they are taking risk and they're probably gonna have to absorb some increased cost if I sign up for a longer contract. I feel like we run into the same thing service industry wise when it comes to what we're charging creatively for retainer. So when y'all have cracked that code, call us up here at Mileshko cause I would love to have a conversation cause we've just.
Kyrill Lazarov18:54Hmm.
Dario Nouri18:55Oh yeah.
Dario Nouri19:06You know what, like 50 episodes in we've only had I think two, maybe three guests come on that say they've either are doing it and it's work. I think one person, the North Carolina Adam from Digital Sparks, I think is the company, is that the one? He's, yeah, he's the one that
Kyrill Lazarov19:13Yeah.
Kyrill Lazarov19:23Yeah, I believe so.
Zach Yokum19:23Right, right, the one, yeah, who owned the studio as well that they rented out. I was like, oh, brilliant.
Dario Nouri19:31has had pretty good success with it. I think the other person that's mentioned that said they had some success with it. So out of 50 episodes, only two people said they've tried it and it's worked out well with them.
Kyrill Lazarov19:42I think it only works if it really depends on the situation. If you have such a huge team of people that you have to work with and then the contract model comes in, it would have to be one, a very juicy contract, or two, say you have two retainer contracts, then you have a lot of one-offs where you make more money with to kind of supplement the losses that you would have from that retainer model, but.
Zach Yokum19:56Mm.
Kyrill Lazarov20:10maybe what you said was exactly the right way to do it. You tell the client, this is the kind of model we'll do of like six month contracts rather than one year, two year, three year, where it's a short enough period of time where you can test certain things out and then you can change it. For example, they did certain types of videos which worked for them there. Then they're not locked into doing the same kind of content for another year because also in our landscape now, content is constantly changing, viewership is changing.
Zach Yokum20:38Right?
Kyrill Lazarov20:40and people need to adjust their marketing strategies and their video content strategies. So maybe that's another way to start pitching it to clients where instead of saying like, look, we don't wanna do a retainer for a year, we wanna do a three to six month, doing only this type of content, this is how much it'll cost, and then after that, let's see what worked, and then let's shift it over like that. That might actually even be more beneficial for clients.
Dario Nouri21:02No, it doesn't make sense when it's that short, because think about how much time there is in between projects anyways. It's back to the same old formula at that point.
Kyrill Lazarov21:09Back to, yeah, exactly. It's like a full circle thing. It's like back to. Ha ha ha.
Zach Yokum21:12Well, and, and that's why we have found the few retainers that we do have. It is so situational. And the only times that we've really found it to work is if it's a very frequent shoot, like something that's happening every week or multiple times a week. And it's very template, templatizable. I'm just inventing words now. Templated. There we go. I like templatizable though.
Kyrill Lazarov21:32Templated, templated, templated. Templatizable, I like that word. Yeah, I know, right?
Dario Nouri21:32templated uh…
Zach Yokum21:39Shakespeare just invented words, why can't we do that now? But something that can follow a preset template. So I can add any member of my team to fill that role versus, oh gosh, well I gotta send Gary because Gary's the only person who knows how to do this. Because that's the other thing is unless what you're signing up for has, like you said, a juicy profit margin or it's a juicy contract, wow.
Dario Nouri21:41Heh heh.
Zach Yokum22:03guess not just what are you saying yes to for the next six months, but you are now having to tell anything else no for that same time period. And what if something else comes in that is a higher profit margin or something that you want to do? So anyway, I, I am the people out there that are doing retainer models well or having like that subscription type service.
Dario Nouri22:14That's even better.
Zach Yokum22:27My hat, my creative hat is off to you because we haven't quite cracked that. But it brings up a question for me because I know y'all have, oops, see there's the Southern coming out. I know y'all aren't in Uwens territory, right? That's not a Canadian thing, Uwens. I think that's a American Midwest thing. But you guys, you guys, I mean, it's still just the two of y'all, right? Right, so.
Dario Nouri22:36Haha.
Dario Nouri22:42You wins, what's up? Oh really?
Kyrill Lazarov22:47Hehehe
Dario Nouri22:53Yeah, yeah, two of us. Yeah.
Zach Yokum22:57So, I mean, in my mind, it might be easier for someone with your makeup of a company to enter into a retainer model because you can contract out whenever you need shooters or like an audio tech. So you almost could scale up and down. So, why have you all not done a retainer model?
Dario Nouri23:21We just haven't found the client that was, to be honest with you, we just haven't found the correct pitch or proposal for it just yet. Like our client roster has been changing a lot lately. Like there's clients come in, clients go out, tides go in, tides go out type of situation. We do have one client, which I guess we do have a retainer module with, but it's like they…
Kyrill Lazarov23:33Yep.
Zach Yokum23:39Mm-hmm.
Kyrill Lazarov23:46It's a retainer, but it's not being called a retainer. So in a way we do kind of have that. Like we basically at the beginning of the year made up, it's quarterly report videos and then one big conference video that they have at the end of the year. So we basically in January set up, all right, so these are the four quarters that you're gonna do. Here are the days that you wanna aim for it. Let's book everything in. I mean, yeah, Dari, I guess that's technically our first retainer.
Dario Nouri23:58Yeah.
Zach Yokum23:59Okay.
Dario Nouri24:07I don't, I don't, is it though? Is it though? I think retainer's a little different. Retainer's more like there's a pot, right? And it's like you just take from the pot whenever you need it, right? That's kind of like what I think of it. Cause you always hear it's like, oh, they got a law firm on retainer. It kind of means whenever they need their services, they just go to it. These guys are just like, they booked us for these projects essentially. Do you know what I mean?
Zach Yokum24:17Right.
Kyrill Lazarov24:20Yeah.
Zach Yokum24:20Right, look.
Kyrill Lazarov24:32But that's also kind of, I don't know.
Zach Yokum24:32Yeah, I'd say. Yeah, I mean, if by retainer, you mean that, okay, you are pre-booking my time for 12 months out, okay, I don't know if that's a retainer because you know exactly what you're shooting. So in a way, that's a reservation. Like a restaurant doesn't say, oh, would you like to be on retainer this evening at 6 p.m.? It's no, you make a reservation on my time. Whereas retainer is, hey, I don't even know when we're gonna use you, I just know I want to use you. Can I pay?
Dario Nouri24:46Yeah. Yeah, exactly.
Dario Nouri24:52That's the word. Yeah, yeah.
Kyrill Lazarov24:52You know what?
Dario Nouri24:57Yeah.
Zach Yokum25:05for the right of your creative priority. Cause that's essentially what you're doing with a retainer, right? Is you're saying, all right, even if something else comes to the door, you are paying for the right to my creative priority whenever you call me.
Dario Nouri25:08Exactly. Yeah.
Kyrill Lazarov25:18So essentially this is a retainer versus reservation kind of need with clients. And I think what a lot of creatives, when they're asking, when they're saying, man, I want a retainer client, I want more retainers, it's like, I think they mean they want more reservations that are many months out. So, you know, maybe that's what it is. Yeah, exactly, exactly. And when you think about it, yeah.
Dario Nouri25:32Hehehehe…
Zach Yokum25:34Right, because they want to be able to plan out their year.
Dario Nouri25:38Because then you know what the project is right because with a retainer You won't know what the project is until they come with the need right?
Kyrill Lazarov25:45Imagine
Zach Yokum25:45and inevitably… Go ahead.
Kyrill Lazarov25:49No, no, go, go for it. Go for it.
Zach Yokum25:50Well, the other reason why we have been so hesitant to do retainers is for exactly what we're talking about here is if I can't plan my calendar out, then how do I prevent all of my retainer clients coming to me at once? Which we've already experienced a couple times to where like, okay, we were on a retainer, they don't talk to us for eight months. And then all of a sudden in Q4, they go, oh, we wanna use up all of our money in Q4. And you're like, well that…
Kyrill Lazarov25:57Yeah.
Kyrill Lazarov26:04Yeah, that's…
Dario Nouri26:06Oh, yeah.
Kyrill Lazarov26:16Oh my god.
Dario Nouri26:17Oh.
Zach Yokum26:17That made sense if you had spread it out over the course of a year, but all of that in one quarter, that's a lot. And so unless you have really clear guardrails of like, hey, you have to use XMAT, like basically you use it or you lose it, which to me, that's the only way for a retainer to win as the vendor. But, you know, as a client, like, are you going to accept that? Like, kind of like a gym membership. Like, all right, well, right.
Dario Nouri26:33Yeah.
Kyrill Lazarov26:43They're not going to.
Dario Nouri26:45The only way I see that working is, I think Adam mentioned this, he'll go to them every quarter and propose different projects they could do. Because it's like, hey, it's like quarter one. Yeah, because it's like it's quarter one and it's like, we got to, this is what we think you guys should do. And this is the budget we have based on the retainer. I guess that would be the solution for that, no?
Kyrill Lazarov26:54Yeah. I think it's about having an engagement.
Zach Yokum26:56and then give them a percentage discount.
Kyrill Lazarov27:09There would have to be clear communication with the client going forward. You can't just sign them on a retainer and then like no communication for seven, eight months. And then all of a sudden it comes in because I guess that is the scary thing about retainers. It's like, say for example, you have three other projects that are about to happen this week. And then all of a sudden your client says, we need you to come in this week to film this massive project that we need to do next week. It's like, but you're coming to us last second when we already have this entire week booked. It's like, yeah, well, I signed a retainer.
Zach Yokum27:37Right.
Kyrill Lazarov27:38that could cause some kind of problems. Or like as you said, all the retainers show up at once. And I guess you have to like figure out those kinds of safeguards. I think clear communication consistently, like every two weeks, every month, at least talk with the client and see what's happening. That way you can kind of gauge what's gonna be coming in that month, what you can plan for. But yeah, like. I don't know. I mean, we don't have that. We don't have a retainer client, so I don't know. Who knows if this will actually work, but, you know, I think I'm for the idea of let's get more reservations down the year, you know, let's do that.
Dario Nouri28:13Hahaha
Zach Yokum28:14Right. Oh, I know for me, I would love to have reserved time a year out, but yeah, not at a retainer because then I know exactly when it's going to hit. And I can look back at an SOW and say, well, you said the dates were going to be here. Uh, which, uh, a question I have for y'all, because this is something that is a, a current pain point for us. And I would love to get another creative take on it is speaking of a reservation. is how have you handled if a client has communicated, hey, our editing time is going to be like these three weeks. Like, Hey, this is our delivery date. But then they come to you and go, Oh, Hey, we've had some delays on our end. Uh, push it back another two weeks. All right. There was some delays on like this MS, this SME is traveling to Nigeria and won't be back for two weeks, but we have to get their input delayed another two weeks. Well, now you've got this project that's sitting in post that keeps getting kicked down the lane, down the lane. And inevitably, you're gonna have your editing team working on something else. And then that client comes back and goes, oh, we're ready to be finished now.
Dario Nouri29:25Yeah, dealing with that right now actually with two different projects. One of them is worrying me a little bit because it's an animation project and our animator, luckily, is free, but like it was supposed to be done by August 1st and we still haven't started on it because like the script keeps getting delayed. I guess what I mean.
Kyrill Lazarov29:26It… Yeah, it-
Zach Yokum29:34OOF
Kyrill Lazarov29:45they keep taking their time, you know, then like, yeah, go Dario.
Zach Yokum29:45Yes.
Dario Nouri29:51I don't know, you really can't. You know what, this is why you put those dates in the contract so that if something ever happens, you just kind of go.
Kyrill Lazarov30:00you're gonna have to wait because you pushed it down the road, you're gonna have to wait. It's like, we'll still do it for you, but that's one thing that we do is we make sure we keep the dates and the deadlines in the contract so that we all know what to expect from each other and what is expected from each party. And then if there is delays on one side, because it happens, like at the end of the day, business is business.
Dario Nouri30:02Yeah.
Dario Nouri30:19But we haven't had an issue, but Carol, in all fairness, we haven't had a situation where it did get to like a conflict point because we've been pretty lucky. We've been lucky so far. I'm sure it'll happen eventually at some point. But again, that's why, that's why in the contract that I always put the dates because that's always my like safety. If they like something happens, like, look, you guys signed the contract and it is what it is type of thing. And then one thing we do as well is like, uh, I break up our invoices for
Zach Yokum30:20Mm-hmm.
Kyrill Lazarov30:27We've been lucky. Yeah.
Zach Yokum30:37Mm-hmm.
Dario Nouri30:50the total project into three. So I'll do project management fees and pre-production as the first invoice, production as the second, and post as the third. And actually one interesting thing I've noticed lately is that because I send them all after they sign the contract, they then send them to the accounting team. And I noticed that the accounting team doesn't pay them like at their intervals. They'll usually just pay them all at once. So we actually get our post money.
Zach Yokum31:16interesting.
Dario Nouri31:20At the same time, we're getting paid for the rest of it, right? Because usually close to the production, I'm like, hey, we got to, like, the money hasn't come in yet. So then they like bug accounting. And then I notice it's like, oh, the whole project's paid for. That's good. Like, the animation one we're working on now, like, they pay for the whole thing. So it's delayed, which sucks. But it's like, we got paid for it. So I'm literally just waiting on them. So I'm a little more relaxed on that end, right? But also, I tell them, it's like, look, it's still going to take like four weeks. Like, they were for a couple weeks.
Zach Yokum31:22Huh.
Zach Yokum31:43So.
Dario Nouri31:47Like we were chatting yesterday and they're like, oh, what do you think the updated timeline is? I was like, it's still four weeks from when I get the script. So like if I get the script, if I get the script tomorrow, it's going to be four weeks from tomorrow. The project's going to be complete. If I get next week, it's four weeks from next week that I get the because again, like it's that's what that's how long our editor or animator will take. So like we told you guys this going into it, like, I guess just the communication aspect needs to be very
Kyrill Lazarov31:54Nothing changes.
Kyrill Lazarov32:10That's the process.
Dario Nouri32:15the communication needs to be very clear with them, letting them know how long it's gonna take. It's like if you hire someone to build you a house and you wait till last second to give them the money to buy the supplies, the guy's still gonna tell you, well, it's gonna take this much time because the carpenter takes this much time and that takes that much. Yeah, I'm not a magician, you know, I can't work magic. Okay.
Kyrill Lazarov32:28Also shipping, shipping time, right?
Zach Yokum32:29Right.
Kyrill Lazarov32:33I think one thing that has been very fortunate for us where there hasn't been conflict on that side is because we have communicated all that stuff prior, talked about it in the contract, talked about it in pre-production, that they know that if there are any delays on when we get certain things, they understand it's like, oh, it's because of me that things are delayed and now we understand that this has been delayed because of this, no problem. If you didn't communicate that.
Zach Yokum32:34Right.
Kyrill Lazarov33:02That's where I can see more conflict coming.
Dario Nouri33:04No, but Kyrill, the thing is we are smaller so we can kind of get away with it. But because we're using like freelancer editors, that's the part that makes me nervous at times because what if our editor, that particular editor, they're not available, right? That's the part that worries me, which I think we'll have to communicate what would happen in that situation to the client and then let them know it's like in that situation, then.
Zach Yokum33:17They're suddenly not available. Right.
Dario Nouri33:29because we gotta bring on another, oh, that's a tricky situation. Oh my God, I don't know actually what the solution for that is. That might be a big problem for us, eh, going forward, because then it's like, if we gotta bring in another editor, it's gonna cost us a big, it's gonna eat up the post-production profit.
Zach Yokum33:35Right, well, and that's why.
Kyrill Lazarov33:35You know what?
Kyrill Lazarov33:47Yeah, well this is why it's key.
Zach Yokum33:47Right. Well, and that's why it's been such a sticking point for us. Cause, cause we have that verbiage in our contracts. Like, Hey, this is the delivery date. We even started including things like, Hey, if the, after 14 days after the final delivery date, we can no longer guarantee availability, basically saying like, Hey, here's some buffer. Cause we know, cause we know life happens. But.
Dario Nouri33:56Yeah.
Dario Nouri34:07Oh that's good, I gotta put that in.
Zach Yokum34:12It's one thing to have it in the contract, and then it's another thing to have a conversation with a client of like, hey, here's why we can't deliver your video. Even if it's fully on them, like they didn't meet deadlines, they took forever to get back with you. Like it's just a hard conversation to have with someone of like, hey, here's why we're not gonna complete your video. And the customer service side of me is just, oh, I wish there was a different mechanism that instead of just like.
Kyrill Lazarov34:35It hurts, it hurts.
Zach Yokum34:39you done messed up, A-A Ron, like how instead, because you can't just throw money at it and go, okay, well, if you're gonna continue to reserve our editing booth time, because we even considered that for a while, is like, well, what if it's just, you are making a reservation in our edit booth, and if you extend that reservation, it's gonna cost more. Just like if you were at a hotel, right? Like if, hey, I know life happened, your flight got delayed, and I'm gonna extend my reservation by two days. All right, well, that'll be X amount of dollars. But at the… But it's like, ooh, does that feel right?
Dario Nouri35:10Do you guys have, what's your revision process like? Cause we have like a three step process for that. So it's rough cut, fine cut. And then after the fine cut, they get the final cut. And that's it. The project's considered complete at that point. Do you guys have something similar for that?
Zach Yokum35:27Yeah, most of the time, uh, we say we, we believe in delivering versions, not drafts, so kind of counter to what you'd see in, in the film world, like we're, we're baking in the color correction and a lot of the graphics in the very first cut that the client sees, uh, because what we find in the corporate world is since we're not delivering to a fellow creative, they can't see past any imperfections. So like as a creative, you show me a daily, I will know, okay, this is the raw stuff. So I'm not going to critique the color or lack of graphics. Like I'm just looking for content. But in the corporate world, they just know, all right, is it completely there or it's not? So that's why we kind of moved to, all right, you get a V1. So a version one, and then usually after that, it's the final. Like we usually try to keep it to just one round of revisions because our huge mantra, and we have this stickers on our laptop, anywhere that we can put a sticker on a piece of equipment is fix it in pre. So with a lot of our corporate clients, like they should know exactly the video they're getting before we shoot the first shot.
Dario Nouri36:22Oh, so one round, okay.
Kyrill Lazarov36:23Oh, that's good.
Zach Yokum36:42because we're talking, all right, the script, did that get approved by Susan and accounting and did that get approved by Greg and HR? Like, is there any other thing about the script or this, this AV? Cause we'll have the script and then the shots that will accompany that, the scripting so that no one is surprised. And we have found that doing that and then having that version one be a live review. So before, and I'm sure many other. folks have done this, you know, we send the link out via Frame.io or Dropbox replay or, you know, insert service that you use for people to review the video. But we would spend so much time reconciling client feedback because Sharon would say, I love the font choice, but then Bill would say, I hate the font choice. Well, if they are both on the same pecking order, which comment do you take? Whereas
Dario Nouri37:34Oh, we figured out a solution for that because we were getting, we were having, and that happened on frame and we let them know it's like, look, one person needs to, like if a thread, a reply thread starts, one person needs to make the final call on that thing. That was like our solution for that. Like one person. So if there's two people, one of them has to make the final call on it. Cause we ran into the exact same problem.
Kyrill Lazarov37:37We have that.
Zach Yokum37:51who has the authority kind of deal, like who has Trump card.
Zach Yokum37:57Okay.
Kyrill Lazarov37:59Yeah, the only thing that's annoying, I was just gonna say the only thing that's annoying about once a thread happens is that, say like your point of contact goes through all the notes and then the other people start going through all the notes, when do we know that everyone has gone through it? Has that person been able to get a chance to go through it?
Zach Yokum38:00Well, well, but.
Dario Nouri38:15Oh no, they let us know, Kyrill. No, no, Kyrill, they let us know. So I always tell them, it's like, okay, the 48 to 72 hours, let us know, and then we can start on it. So I wait for them to, I wait for our contact to say, okay, we went through it, you can go ahead.
Kyrill Lazarov38:24Oh yeah yeah, that's true.
Kyrill Lazarov38:29Even, but like we've never, yeah, we never really had, we've always had someone already like answer those questions in the thread, so that's true. Yeah, yeah.
Dario Nouri38:36Always. Otherwise, I call them up and I say, okay, what do I do about this note? And again, our editor doesn't start on, or I guess he starts on it, just waits to send us the revised version.
Kyrill Lazarov38:40Yeah, yeah.
Zach Yokum38:44Well, and that, that is exactly why we moved to doing live version one reviews. So, so this is something that we establish at the very beginning of the project is we'll say, Hey, pick a date. On the calendar, we will set an hour long meeting and you get every SME that is involved in deciding this video. We're going to get them on this call and we're all going to watch the video together. And we actually found that not only does that reduce that back and forth of like, you know, rabbit season, duck season. with clients, but actually reduce the amount of overall comments. Because especially if I can be there as the creative expert to where they'll be like, Oh, we really don't like the edit here. If I'm there to go, well, we have to have this edit because the spokesperson blubbed their line. So we're having to cut to this B roll because we can't show them like being able to, you know, you never want to tell them, no, I won't do that. You're wrong. But if you can provide at least some. creative justification for why something's there. Most of the time they go, oh, okay, that makes sense. You know, retract my comment. And so we found that…
Kyrill Lazarov39:45Yeah.
Dario Nouri39:51I type in that comment on frame. I'll go like, oh, we tried it. The take wasn't good.
Zach Yokum39:57Oh yeah, or like there is no alternative. Like, oh, we don't like this delivery. We're like, believe it or not, this was the best one. So we found that doing that live.
Dario Nouri39:59Yeah, yeah, yeah. The best one, yeah. But isn't that a problem? Sorry, I was gonna say, isn't that like, isn't it hard though to like organize the time where they'll all be there? Because I'm sure one of them is always going to be missing and they're always going to say, oh we do need to get things input.
Kyrill Lazarov40:00Yeah.
Kyrill Lazarov40:04Yeah.
Zach Yokum40:18Not if you do it far enough in advance, because most of the time from us having that pre-production meeting to shooting is usually about a month. And then by the time we would be having that version one review is almost another month. So I mean, there's usually two months within that time, we put the onus on them. We say, hey, you find a time when all of the people can be in this one hour period.
Dario Nouri40:27Mm-hmm.
Zach Yokum40:41And most of the time they can figure it out. Now, I will say there are times when like one person isn't able to be there, in which case you just account for, all right, we'll get as many comments as possible and then we'll make sure that we send it off to Bartholomew who's on vacation this week. But most of the time with heads up, at least with corporate clients, I mean, people exist on their calendar. Like they'll know what they're doing in two months and they can find that one hour window. And when we tell them that it's going to save them budget because they can keep it to one revision round versus two or three, then we get their attention and they are a lot more apt to find that one hour.
Dario Nouri41:20Do you guys still offer like the standard method though? Cause I'm sure like some clients are like.
Zach Yokum41:23Yeah, and there are some times where they're just not interested in that or like, ah, we don't want to do a live review. So we're like, all right, it'll be asynchronous and we'll add a couple more hours of editing because we know that there'll be revisions. So we tell them like, hey, this is going to be a value add to you because it'll actually reduce the amount of overall editing time. And sometimes they opt for that because just because they're like, ah, there's no way we'll ever get this many people in the room. Let's just do it asynchronous. And we go, all right.
Dario Nouri41:29I don't want to do it yet.
Dario Nouri41:36Okay
Kyrill Lazarov41:44Yeah.
Kyrill Lazarov41:53I feel like after four people, it gets even exponentially harder to get people's schedules together. There's sometimes even times where Daria and I are like, can we even get ourselves in the same meeting when it's a really high busy season, right?
Zach Yokum42:06Well, and. And we do clarify with folks that we're not asking for all the people who need to approve this video. It's all the people who need to speak into this video. Because we don't necessarily need your boss in the room to approve the V1. Because you know what is needed as our direct client contact. If the video is on safety, yes, make sure that your director of safety is there. but we just need people who can make constructive criticism into what might need to be changed. And then you can send it for that final approval. But most of the time, if we've done our due diligence on that V1, it's approved nine times out of 10.
Dario Nouri42:40Mm.
Kyrill Lazarov42:48I was gonna say though, like if you don't bring them in for that V1, the people that ultimately approve it, like say the VP of marketing, what if you gone through all those rounds and then at the final bit when they show it, it's like, eh, I don't like it like this here. Let's change everything. Then what?
Zach Yokum43:04Well, and I will say that is the risky run. I have not encountered that yet. I've, I've encountered once or twice where there was like one extra line or like one thing that we would have to omit. Um, but as long as you've got the SMEs that know the content that were there for the V1 most of the time, by the time it gets up, especially if, if they hear, Oh, well Susan approved it. who was the security supervisor. I mean, their boss's boss is so busy that they just need to know, is the video gonna get anyone in trouble and is this what we allotted budget for? And so like, if you can add that context to like, hey, this video has been reviewed, it's been approved by these people, just wanted to run this by you for like final okay, usually unless there's just something so egregious. But I… I can only think of one instance where there was like, oh, we'll just remove this one graphic at the end, tweak it to a, oh, send them to this site instead. So it's been fairly easy, but we saw a major difference ever since we started implementing a live V1 in the amount of revisions we get, reduced it significantly.
Dario Nouri44:05Yeah, ever since we s-
Dario Nouri44:13Yeah, ever since we started focusing a lot on our pre-production process, we have noticed that the revision process has become more of like, like even if there are a lot of notes, it's more like technical stuff. It's not really major story changes versus before we ran into a lot of like, oh no, we have to do like some major restructuring of the story, but.
Kyrill Lazarov44:29Yeah, that's never the case.
Dario Nouri44:36Yeah, like we're very, we communicate very well with our clients now, especially in pre-production and we let them know it's like, okay, like we need to get final approval with this. And then I always stress with them the fact that if we move forward and we don't have everything green lit, it's going to cost more. And I let them know. It's like, it's not, it's not even me. It's more so my editor is going to charge me more and I got to charge you more otherwise, like, cause if I run out of money, what do I do? Right.
Zach Yokum45:01Mm-hmm, right.
Dario Nouri45:02So that's, and they're always pretty, they've been pretty good on that end, like to the point where if, if we just, if there's a, if maybe like something got delayed, they haven't gotten approval or whatever, they've been cool with pushing the production date. That's, that's been a conversation where they're like, okay, let's just push the date because we got it, we can't, can't go forward with it. And we're like, all right, let's do it. It's better be safe than sorry.
Kyrill Lazarov45:16Yeah.
Zach Yokum45:25Yeah, I mean the age old adage of a stitch in time saves nine. You know, I will say on client calls often an ounce of pre-production is worth a pound of post-production. So yes, the reason why I want to do one more script review with you is because this one 15 minute sync could save us six hours in post-production trying to make up for a mistake that we missed. And so it will ultimately save you time and save you money.
Kyrill Lazarov45:55Zach, I'm amazed at all the different sayings and metaphors that you have as like business mantras. Like you could make a whole line of video production t-shirts based on these. That's exactly, I…
Dario Nouri46:06He has them written on the wall behind the camera.
Zach Yokum46:06Hey, Oh yeah. That this, this is like, if I could get more clients to abide by this, I mean, that that's why like you have to practice what you preach. And so for me, when I'm with a client, it's, Hey, this is not just a fun bumper sticker I want you to put on your car. This is going to save you and your team. time, which will ultimately save you money and make for a better video, quite frankly, as well. So, I mean, we're ultimately communicators as creatives. And so I collect these sayings as, oh, wow, that's a great shortcut to an idea that might normally take me like two minutes to convey. So like fix it in pre. I love that saying because it communicates not only that I value your time as a client so much that I don't want to waste it in post. So that. And maybe it's a southern thing too. We just like our old sayings here in the South.
Kyrill Lazarov47:02An ounce of pre. Like that was a good one.
Dario Nouri47:06Speaking of this, just out of curiosity for us, what's the industry like in Atlanta?
Zach Yokum47:13Oh, such a small world. Uh, it's neat because it's still a relatively new, uh, to the, like the movie making industry. Uh, I mean, Georgia's had tax credit for a while, but, you know, again, talk about exponential growth. I kind of feel like it hit this critical mass in the like 2012, 23rd. Well, honestly, it was Walking Dead. I mean, once Walking Dead was shot here, I feel like everyone just made this mass migration and now we have Yollywood as we call it, but
Dario Nouri47:36Yeah.
Zach Yokum47:42What I love about it is while there's so much more infrastructure here now, uh, for a time, the amount of available crew was relatively small. So you'd have like Greg running audio working on seven different productions cause there wasn't a whole lot of, you know, unlike New York or LA where it's. All right. Take your pick. You've got dozens of choices. Uh, you'd have folks here that's like, all right, uh, that you've only got maybe like. single digit options to run that kind of play. It's changed now and a lot of productions, well, it's because of the tax credits, it's still cheaper for them to like fly their people in for the production and then fly them back. But that having been said, I noticed that a lot more Georgia based universities are really amping up their film program as a way of having more Georgia based crew available.
Kyrill Lazarov48:23Oh wow.
Dario Nouri48:25Okay
Zach Yokum48:36and that's been neat to see. But it's still a relatively small world. So you never wanna, I mean, really, it's a good practice for life never to burn a bridge. But I'd say, especially in the Atlanta market, like don't be a jerk on set. Word will travel fast and you may not get that second phone call. But I love it. You've got all the Southern hospitality combined with that creative drive. Yollywood is where I wanna stay. So I was that guy who went to film school and was like, I'm gonna go out to LA and make it big. And then just realized, no, I actually kind of like the more laid back setting here. And that's why I'm still here operating. And then it came to me. So I was like, perfect.
Dario Nouri49:13And it came to you.
Kyrill Lazarov49:15That's great. Everyone and their mother wanted to go to LA and that is why it is so difficult for a lot of people to make it there. And honestly, within your own smaller networks, if you start, that's how you get noticed in smaller areas before you make it in bigger areas.
Dario Nouri49:18What's up?
Zach Yokum49:33Right. Well, and, and for me, it was also just what I wanted to do with my life. Cause, uh, I like to joke sometimes that Mileshko is a, a creative recovery program because we have so many folks who wanted to go do the LA or New York thing, they worked sets, they worked those 26 hour days, uh, and, uh, then realized, huh. okay, maybe this isn't the life that I want because I wanna have a family. I wanna be involved with different hobbies and different missions I wanna serve in. And so I can't commit 26 hours a day to this film thing out in LA. And so what we found is with corporate video in particular I get to be home at 5.30 with my kids because most corporate things are gonna be done around five o'clock. So I joke with people that
Dario Nouri50:24Five o'clock here.
Zach Yokum50:28I make the greatest videos that you'll never see because it's, it's training, it's internal communications. It's, it's things that like, if you work for that company, you'll see a lot of, but you'll never go on YouTube and see the kind of videos that I'm creating. Uh, but for me, I'm still getting to use my creative talents while still being able to have a work life balance that allows me to be a husband and a father and all of the other things that are also important in my life.
Dario Nouri50:31Hehehe
Kyrill Lazarov50:32Hahaha.
Kyrill Lazarov50:38Yeah.
Dario Nouri50:56I used to joke that we make videos that you can't skip.
Zach Yokum51:00Ah, so…
Dario Nouri51:01Because you know the five four three two Before you can skip the ad I was curious also about like the types of industries that are big in Atlanta
Kyrill Lazarov51:05Hehehe
Zach Yokum51:05Ha!
Zach Yokum51:13Uh, I mean, a lot is food industry. Uh, a southerner is like our food. Uh, Atlanta is also a huge distribution point. I mean, I mean, it's all the way back to railroads. I mean, all roads lead to Rome and I'm pretty sure every train and flight connects through Atlanta. I mean, if you've ever done any sort of traveling, you've probably done a connection through Atlanta airport at some point.
Kyrill Lazarov51:23Mm.
Dario Nouri51:32Oh, interesting.
Kyrill Lazarov51:35Yeah, we did Dario when we went to Houston, remember? I think we had to stop in Atlanta. Yep.
Dario Nouri51:36Oh yeah, yeah. Yeah. Right, right, right.
Zach Yokum51:39Yep, that tracks. That tracks. I mean, people don't think of Atlanta, but I mean, Hartsfield Jackson is the busiest airport in the US, not the biggest, but the busiest. And it's because when you think of, you were talking earlier before we started recording about geography lesson, I mean, Atlanta is like the hub of the Southeast when you look at metropolitan areas. So there's a lot of shipping here. I mean,
Dario Nouri51:48Oh well.
Kyrill Lazarov51:49Wow.
Zach Yokum52:05I feel like there's another Amazon distribution center opening up every other day around here. So a lot of shipping and as such manufacturing as well, because man, if you can manufacture where your shipping is, then huge win as a company. But I'd say probably food, a lot of finance in the bucket area of Atlanta to name a few, but I'd say mostly shipping distribution if I had to pick a biggest.
Dario Nouri52:10Oh wow.
Kyrill Lazarov52:12Wow.
Dario Nouri52:35Interesting. Very interesting. Kyrill, do you have any other questions before we end off?
Kyrill Lazarov52:42I had one other one, but it just, it slipped my mind after you asked that previous one. Oh yeah, I just remembered. Yeah, one thing that a lot of people don't think about or plan about when they jump into this industry is the work-life balance aspect and planning for that down the road. Everyone knows that they wanna just jump into it, shoot as much as they can, burn themselves out. A lot of people do that.
Zach Yokum52:50Yeah, I guess we already…
Kyrill Lazarov53:10to the point where a lot of people don't have personal lives or family lives at that point. And then after being in the industry for so long, you don't know how to get out of that or incorporate the work-life balance thing. So I think that's one thing that a lot of creatives or a lot of people who are getting into the industry need to think about what they wanna have down the road. If they wanna work-life balance, if they wanna build families, then they need to plan for that. If you can't do that,
Zach Yokum53:16Right.
Kyrill Lazarov53:38if you're doing, like you said, 24 hour work days, three, four times a week, you'll never see your family. Your family's not gonna be happy about that. So that's just one thing that a lot of people need to think about as well.
Zach Yokum53:45Mm-hmm.
Zach Yokum53:50Right. And, you know, I was jokingly saying 26 hours a day. So please don't make that a reflection on Georgians like, Oh, he thinks there's 26 hours in a day. That was tongue in cheek. Uh, but, uh, a lot of us that were here at Mileshko, we, funnily enough, documentaries like speak to us here.
Kyrill Lazarov54:01Yeah.
Zach Yokum54:09Cause myself and at least three other members of the team actually had a big turning point in our lives because of a documentary that we saw. And for me, it was a documentary on Roger Deakins life. So if I had a hero in film school, it was Roger Deakins. I think that man shoots gold, his ability to light a scene and use light as a storytelling mechanism is just unparalleled. But I was watching a documentary and it started talking about his family life. And it did not match his technical prowess. I was like, Oh wow.
Kyrill Lazarov54:24Yeah.
Zach Yokum54:39That isn't the life I want to live. And that's when I realized, well, man, I want to be able to use these creative talents, but is there a way that I can use them and still achieve that work life balance? And part of it was realizing, all right, I got to get out of editing because when you're a solopreneur in the creative, I mean, you're doing everything. I mean, my life when I was starting out was, all right, I'm either talking with clients in the morning or shooting something. I come home and edit. Somewhere in between that I will sleep and go to the bathroom and then wash, rinse, repeat. And so the, the reason why I think creatives need to find that team is I work in your, your skillset and your strength and then have the trust to rely on someone else to own their part of the pie instead of trying to do all the things. Cause otherwise you're going to have that burnout if you try to do all of the things for too long. Now, when you're just starting out, you may have to, but find you that other creative, because someone is out there who enjoys doing the thing that you don't enjoy doing. Which for me, I thank my editors on the reg, because I don't understand how they can enjoy being in a room by themselves for hours on end, but they somehow do. And I thank my lucky stars that we found each other, because they, on the flip side, can imagine.
Kyrill Lazarov55:49Hahahaha
Zach Yokum55:58being on a podcast, talking with other people and having to come up with answers live or having conversations with a client, they couldn't fathom that. So, hey, find someone who's got opposite strengths of you and together, make a creative team.
Kyrill Lazarov56:12One person's nightmare is another person's heaven. That's just how it is.
Zach Yokum56:16It's so true. It's so true. And… It's rubbing off.
Dario Nouri56:17Oh, Carol, you're talking like him now.
Kyrill Lazarov56:20Yeah, I know. See, even I'm now starting to get these new sayings. Thanks, y'all. There you go.
Dario Nouri56:21Hehehehe
Zach Yokum56:26It's rubbing off. Hey, there you go! We'll make a Southern of you yet. I'll start saying A so I can be a little bit more of a Canadian. A boot.
Dario Nouri56:27Hehehehe…
Dario Nouri56:35and a boot. Oh man. All right. Well, Zach, thank you so much for coming on. This was a good episode. I like what we talked about, especially on the retainer module and the editing side if it gets delayed. That's something Kyrill and I need to chat about after this call. Some contract changes need to happen.
Kyrill Lazarov56:35Oh, in a boot, yeah.
Zach Yokum56:41Adlainne.
Kyrill Lazarov56:41Amazing.
Zach Yokum56:47Yeah.
Zach Yokum56:52Yes.
Kyrill Lazarov56:56Yeah.
Kyrill Lazarov57:00That's the one thing we always like about this show is that I think it allows a lot of us with our guests to kind of discuss ideas and even explore things that are in the back of our minds that we haven't had a chance to kind of bring out in the open. It's like, there's only so much you can do with your own team, but when you talk with other people, new ideas and perspectives come out and that's what we love about this show.
Zach Yokum57:08Mm-hmm.
Zach Yokum57:18Right. Well, and that was one reason I was excited to be on the show is I'm a verbal processor. So I was excited to get your perspective and I love what y'all are doing. If more creatives felt empowered to reach out to each other, because I feel like there can be a, oh, but I don't want to talk to people because then they might find my secrets or, and I feel like that the reality is we're so hungry to, hey, talk to each other, find out what you're doing right. What are maybe, what's maybe something that I could avoid.
Kyrill Lazarov57:24Yep.
Kyrill Lazarov57:43Yeah.
Zach Yokum57:46And the more conversations like this that are had, I think the stronger we'll all become, not only as creatives, but as an industry.
Kyrill Lazarov57:53Yeah, let's get rid of that stigma.
Dario Nouri57:54Yeah, and you mentioned secrets. Like, you'll quickly find out, like, it's not a secret. Someone else has thought about it. Someone else has tried it.
Zach Yokum57:55Mm-hmm.
Kyrill Lazarov58:00It's not… Everyone has a key light that they use in their videos. That's not a secret.
Zach Yokum58:02Right, right. Exactly.
Dario Nouri58:07Yeah.
Zach Yokum58:09Right, right. Because even if you find out something, you still have to implement it. You still have to be able to successfully do it. And that only comes with practice and having the gumption to do it.
Dario Nouri58:19Yeah. And for your business specifically, which is even trickier because it's all like specific to you.
Kyrill Lazarov58:21Yeah, we mentioned, yeah.
Zach Yokum58:26Mm-hmm.
Kyrill Lazarov58:27Yeah, that's one thing we've mentioned on the show is that what works for one company does not necessarily mean it's gonna work for the other one. And, you know, like maybe little tips here and there can kind of help and you can implement, but entire strategies and direction, you can't, as a business, you can't just switch that after one conversation with someone. You don't know why it works for them. So that's the thing.
Zach Yokum58:47Right. Well, to me as well as at the end of the day, we're all human and your team will have a unique makeup purely by the people that are on your team, because we can all buy the same camera. We can all go on B&H and all as different businesses buy the same camera, but you can't replicate the same person. And so it's all right. How are you strategically creating that client experience from the folks that you have on your team? And. That's something that, yeah, I could tell you who we have on our team on a podcast, but you won't be able to have the same crew layout and the same team. And that's why I feel like as creatives, like we should be sharing more of the technical so that we can then focus on the more relational.
Dario Nouri59:34Yeah, and it'll just, if we set like an industry standard in a way, it makes all of our jobs easier because when your client eventually moves on to another company, at least they're trained if you've done your job properly rather than you having the next person having to train the client.
Kyrill Lazarov59:35Yeah, and tech.
Zach Yokum59:47Right.
Kyrill Lazarov59:47Yeah. And.
Zach Yokum59:49Mm-hmm.
Kyrill Lazarov59:52And just to clarify for the audiences, when you're talking about sharing the technicals, it's not sharing the technicals of how to film things, but the technicals of how to conduct yourself in a business setting with clients, and how to service clients. Because at the end of the day, we're all servicing clients in very similar ways. You know, like, yeah, we're creating different products, but sales services and business practices translate to every industry. And so,
Dario Nouri01:00:00the business.
Zach Yokum01:00:03Yeah, business practices. Yeah.
Kyrill Lazarov01:00:20You know, that's one thing that definitely needs a standardization of professionalism in this industry because they're, not everyone knows how to do that. So, yeah.
Zach Yokum01:00:29And that's a good call out, not the technical, perhaps a better word would be the tactical is what we can share a lot more of. Well, you haven't asked me what Mileshko, well, I was going to say you haven't asked me what Mileshko means. Like you ask all of your guests, like.
Kyrill Lazarov01:00:35The tactical, yeah.
Dario Nouri01:00:35Oh yeah, yeah. Tactical.
Kyrill Lazarov01:00:41One last metaphor.
Dario Nouri01:00:47Oh, I thought you, uh, it was the guy's last name, no? Yeah, it's the guy's last name, no? The, uh, the photographers?
Kyrill Lazarov01:00:48We covered that in the beginning.
Zach Yokum01:00:53Yeah, but we didn't talk about what it means. I had my, I had my, oh, I had my, I had my notes. I was like, that's the one consistent question. Yeah, and I was like, I was so ready for this. I was gonna be there. I was gonna hit a grand slam.
Kyrill Lazarov01:00:56Oh, there's another meaning to it. Oh, okay.
Dario Nouri01:00:57Oh, there's a there's a meaning. OK. Oh, OK, OK. Oh, my God. I thought we covered it. All right. What's what's it? OK, what's it mean? What's it mean?
Kyrill Lazarov01:01:07Yeah, I was thinking to myself like I think we could yeah
Zach Yokum01:01:11Right, right. Well, Mileshko actually, while it's a Belarusian name actually has its roots in Greek and it basically means hardworking in Greek, which is something that once, once we, we delved into that and, and found that name that we, we used to be Tom Mileshko photography, and then we were for a while and I'm glad it was a short stint Mileshko creative imaging, which I feel like was trying to add all the things together, but yet.
Kyrill Lazarov01:01:39That's a long name.
Zach Yokum01:01:40So many people thought that we were a printing company and after a while, after a while we thought, you know what, let's just stick with Mileshko because kind of like a, a Deloitte like Deloitte, they do consulting. Now the name doesn't tell you that they do consulting, but they've built their reputation as, Oh, when you hear that you equate it with consulting. And so.
Kyrill Lazarov01:01:43Hahaha
Dario Nouri01:01:43Hehehehe
Dario Nouri01:01:56Mm. Right.
Zach Yokum01:02:06As we were trying to come up with a name, we were like, why don't we just stick with Mileshko? I mean, it's roots mean hardworking, which I mean, what better thing to communicate to your client that like, Hey, we're going to work for you. We, we're going to be providing you with the best service we can, but then we don't need to say Mileshko video production, Mileshko create it. Like after a while, if we've earned that trust with a client, they will begin to equate Mileshko with ah, those are the creative partners we go to, to get it done. And so far, we've had success with that.
Kyrill Lazarov01:02:38you're very fortunate to have a unique name in that sense that you can acquire it because there are a lot of businesses that can't do that. Like trust us, like we tried to get laps.com long time ago, but that didn't work out because it was already taken.
Dario Nouri01:02:38Nice.
Zach Yokum01:02:53And full disclosure, we also saw that there was no competition on SEO or website domain. And so that also helped us with the decision of going with Mileshko.
Dario Nouri01:02:59Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha
Kyrill Lazarov01:03:02Yeah, I think that's the 80% driving factor when you pick a name is that, is it taken? Yeah.
Zach Yokum01:03:09Right, right. Well, at least in the US, if you're in Belarus, it's like Smith over there. So, you know, hey, location, location. But here in the US, I mean, we have it to ourselves pretty solidly. There's not a whole lot of Google traffic on Mileshko.
Kyrill Lazarov01:03:15Oh yeah, yeah.
Dario Nouri01:03:15Okay.
Dario Nouri01:03:27Ha ha ha.
Kyrill Lazarov01:03:27Nice, nice. That's great. Well, Zach, thanks again for joining us on the show and we look forward to seeing what you guys do in the future as well.
Zach Yokum01:03:32My pleasure.
Zach Yokum01:03:36Well, same. Well, thanks for having me and look forward to hearing more great conversation. Cause this was 49, he said. So you're about to celebrate 50.
Kyrill Lazarov01:03:42Yep.
Dario Nouri01:03:4350 next episode.
Kyrill Lazarov01:03:44Woo!
Zach Yokum01:03:45All right, congratulations. That's awesome.
Dario Nouri01:03:47We got a pop bottle of champagne, hey girl? I was about to say crystal. Listen, it's 10 a.m., I need my second coffee, okay? Did I actually say crystal? You know what I was about to say? Crystal for some weird reason. A bottle of crystal, I was thinking in my head.
Kyrill Lazarov01:03:50Yeah, my name's not Chris. Did you call me Chris almost?
Zach Yokum01:03:5649 episodes in and you can't get the name
Kyrill Lazarov01:03:59Hahahaha
Kyrill Lazarov01:04:11Oh my God. Yeah, you know what? We'll do that. We'll make Irish coffees with the next one, all right?
Zach Yokum01:04:17Oh, then I'm gonna have to listen in for episode 50. That's gonna be, there you go. You can do creatives grabbing spiked coffee. Just for that episode.
Dario Nouri01:04:17Yeah, we should.
Kyrill Lazarov01:04:21You know what? Let's do that. Exactly.
Dario Nouri01:04:23after that. Oh my god. Turn it off halfway into it. Hehehehe
Zach Yokum01:04:31There you go.
Kyrill Lazarov01:04:32Amazing. All right. Well, take care, Zach. We'll keep in touch.
Dario Nouri01:04:33Okay, alright, thank you, Zach.
Zach Yokum01:04:36All right, see y'all.
