The Case for Not Growing Your Studio (ft. Motion Source)

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Dario00:00Alright everyone, welcome to another episode. Today we got Craig… my god, I screwed it up again. I knew beforehand I'm like, I'm gonna screw up the last name. The last couple of episodes have been a disaster. Okay, so Craig Bass… Okay, good, good. Yes, okay, good. From Ocean Source, they're based out of Chicago. I should stop saying the last names. I'm just going to say first name from this place.

Kyrill00:05Performance anxiety Dario, what is this?

Craig00:18Yep, like the fish.

Craig00:27True.

Kyrill00:29I don't know Daria, you kinda messed up the first name, that's what was really funny about the whole thing, you were like, crick crick craig.

Craig00:32Thank you.

Dario00:33Cause I was, cause I knew going into it, I'm like, my God, what do I say for the last time? Is it bass or bass? I'm like, no.

Craig00:41It'd be a lot cooler if it was bass, I think, but now it's bass.

Dario00:45Yeah. Anyways, our first guest from Chicago. Correct, Carol? Did we have anyone else from Chicago or no? First one.

Kyrill00:53I think we've already, my God, this intro, Dario, you're having some trouble today. What's going on?

Dario00:57I'm stumbling man. You know the problem is every week I'm reaching out to a different city. So I'm getting confused in my head. I'm like who's this person from? Which city they're from? Like it's a lot of companies. Anyways, basically I need a secretary. I think that's what I'm getting at.

Kyrill01:03Ahem.

Kyrill01:16All right, let's just do one from the start just so we can, yeah.

Dario01:19I'm gonna do a clean one, okay. Okay, hi everyone, welcome to another episode. Today we got Craig Bass from Motion Source, they're based out of Chicago. Craig, welcome to the show.

Craig01:29Thanks for having me.

Dario01:31And I guess let's just start with a little bit of an intro. Just tell us a little bit about you, how you got into the industry.

Craig01:37Sure. Well, we're a video production company, Motion Sources, out of Chicago, and our main focus is corporate commercial and nonprofit video production. How did I get into it? I think that now was probably about 15 years ago, if not a little bit longer. I was a aspiring filmmaker.

Dario03:15Was this like 2005, 2010?

Kyrill03:272007.

Craig03:39commercials for local businesses and stuff like that. So, him and I hit it off, even though we're very different people, we get along very, very well. And very quickly after freelancing for him for a while, he said, well, what if we just start a video production company? You know, sort of separate from his marketing company.

Dario05:05So when, so your business partner left, or you guys parted ways, did you end up like buying out his portion or how did you guys handle that part of the business?

Craig05:18It's interesting. He was never super interested in film. So I think what he saw, it was interesting for him, but I don't think he was ever super interested in learning it and applying himself to it deeply. So he kind of worked more the business angle, you know, and I think it got to a point where he was realizing he didn't have as much to contribute.

Kyrill05:41Right.

Craig05:48And we actually had a period of time where he had developed some other businesses that he was also cultivating. He had developed some products that he was selling and were selling well on Amazon. He had developed a…

Kyrill06:45Mm -hmm.

Craig06:52Generally that feels very negative, but there's nobody else I would have wanted to have as a partner. We never had any issues of trust. I love the guy to death and I can't even imagine partnering with anybody else at this point. So it was all good.

Dario07:11So you were handling more like the business side before, right?

Craig07:13Initially, yeah, but I think I learned a lot, a lot of necessity. I didn't have any interest in business, an interest in making things and being creative and telling stories. But as I co -owned a business and started to get more involved in that aspect of things, I learned a lot more about business. I don't know that he ever learned much more about films.

Dario07:41Nice.

Kyrill07:43Well, he was a serial entrepreneur from what it sounded like. He had an interest in exploring different types of ventures. And what he loved more was the different kinds of businesses that he could probably be involved in and how that would translate into making money potentially down the road, right? Whereas you are more so focused on the craft and the film based on what you're mentioning, right? So like…

Craig07:43Ugh.

Craig07:50Mm -hmm.

Craig08:05Yeah. Yeah.

Kyrill08:08It's interesting because like a lot of the time when business partnerships do end, that's why Dario was asking like, how did that whole process go? Usually it involves some kind of buyout or an exchange. And even though there wasn't exactly a monetary buyout on your end, like you said, you basically sold your interests in his other businesses and he sold his interest in this business to you. So in a way that was kind of like the amicable way to go about it. Yeah.

Craig08:31Yeah.

Kyrill09:16And you mentioned that this happened like about a year, year and a half ago where you guys amicably split. What has that process been like for you kind of taking over more of the business responsibilities and coupling that with the rest of the business as well since then? What has that journey been like?

Dario09:16Nice.

Craig09:20Yeah.

Craig09:29It hasn't been dramatically different because like I said, I think I was learning more about business and I was taking a much stronger role in running the business that was happening organically over time. So really we had gotten to a part where a point where he was almost a silent partner. He was working on these other things that I had an interest in. I was working on this that he had an interest in. So by the time we parted ways,

Craig11:36becomes an obstacle for my other ambitions.

Dario11:39So can you elaborate a bit on that? Like how do you, how much do you not want to grow in it then?

Craig11:41So…

Dario12:01It's like, it's like, yeah, under under 10 for sure. Five is usually the average.

Craig12:11And then of course a lot of freelancers. And I think at that time there was more, I was a bit more maybe drunk on the ambition of like, I'm gonna, you know, we're gonna do all this work and blah, blah, blah, blah. Make all this money or whatever, I don't know. But the, you know, I don't want that. I don't wanna be, it's a big responsibility to carry eight employees. It is,

Dario13:55fluctuates.

Craig13:59you know, it would be, you know, getting to a place where we're perhaps charging a little bit more for our services, because I think that, there are some areas in which we aren't making what we're worth, in the current marketplace. So there are small areas in which I'm happy to grow and I think makes sense, but you know, there are other, I feel like a lot of people, like initially you start to grow a business. It's exciting.

Dario15:47So you were at eight employees pre -pandemic, what are you at now?

Craig15:51Something like eight, seven, eight, nine, somewhere in there. I'd have to sit down and count it. Now, three.

Dario15:58okay. That's pretty drastic.

Craig16:01Yeah, three and I have, I do have someone else here every day, but he is an independent contractor. and he fluctuates between year of the Phoenix and motion source, you know, sort of doing tasks for each. And then we obviously, I think the audience for this is video production companies, right? So people understand how it works. I mean, you have your freelancers and I generally work with the same people endlessly. Like they are part of the motion source team, but.

Dario16:19Yeah, yeah.

Craig16:30They're not working every day. They're not employees.

Kyrill16:33Yeah, because you can't be keeping them as busy to the point where you can justify bringing them on as full -time employees, right? Yeah.

Craig16:40Yeah. Yeah. We used to have to do the shooter editor combo. So, you know, if they were going to be on full time, they'd have to have production abilities and post abilities. You know, we're shooting how many days a week are we shooting? One, none, five. It totally depends on the week, right? So how do you have a DP on staff? How do you have a, you know, it doesn't really make any sense. Well, it makes more sense if, they have.

Dario16:52Mm -hmm.

Dario16:59Yeah, it varies.

Craig17:09talents in other areas, namely post -production. Okay, now they can not only shoot, but edit. I do find though that generally, and I'm a cross -trained person, but generally with cross -trained individuals, it's a trade -off because the depth of talent in any one area isn't as great as somebody who's sole focus is that area. So I actually…

Dario17:32Yeah.

Craig17:37It probably is the best arrangement in terms of quality, the freelancer model.

Kyrill17:45Yeah, I mean, we used to hire people that had those abilities as well where they could shoot and edit at the same time because of that convenience aspect. But then we noticed one of the big challenges that comes into play when you're hiring people like that is that they get really busy on the production side of things sometimes that the editing takes like a back seat a little bit, right? Because you know, you're…

Craig17:47Ahem.

Kyrill18:10people are trying to fill up their days with the shoots whenever the work comes in, which is understandable. But as a result, you know, yeah, either do post at night or it takes longer to do the post. And it's not as much the same as like if you hire just editors solely to focus on that. And we found that it's become a lot better to kind of shift into that focus like you pick someone who's solely an editor, pick people who are solely shooters and…

Dario18:16and they'll do a post that night.

Kyrill18:38that kind of helped manage also expectations a little bit better because everyone had their, you knew what to trust each of them with, right? Whereas like if you were hiring someone who's a shooter editor, it's like, can you get this edit done by tomorrow, by in the next two days? It's like, I'm on set for the next two days. I won't be able to get to it until like a week from now. It's like, and you're kind of in a little bit of a pickle at that point, right? So yeah, like there's benefits and…

Craig18:52Hmm.

Craig18:56Yeah.

Craig19:01Yeah, it's not a good situation.

Kyrill19:07downsides to each approach, but yeah, like, yeah.

Dario19:10That works if you're running a company, but if you're getting freelancers like that.

Craig19:15Yeah, I mean, it worked for us. Yeah, it worked for us when they were on staff because we could kind of control the production. But, and you, you would hit roadblocks, right? Where you're like, crap, we need to get this shot. This is the only day the client can do it. We're mid edit on this. Blah, blah, blah. I also found that, and I hate saying this, but I found that,

Dario19:19Yeah. Yeah.

Kyrill19:20Yeah.

Kyrill19:30Yeah.

Craig19:41people in those positions on staff tended to be less motivated than independent contractors are. I would see that people get very lax and I don't want to say overly comfortable because it's important to me to create a comfortable environment for everyone, but perhaps take advantage of the situation and take too much time on things or whatever it was.

Craig21:40opportunities for people that want to be doing video production work but want the stability and don't care as much about the variety or like I said, rolling the dice. So it actually worked out really well for all of the guys, very quickly got hired in other places that I think were better suited to the lifestyle they were looking for. So it was…

Kyrill21:51Yeah.

Craig22:07a horrible thing and COVID was a terrible thing, but I think in terms of our business and it was crippling for our business and I think as an industry, we're still seeing the aftershocks. So in no way am I suggesting that it wasn't a terrible blow to film and video production. But for me personally, I do think there was, you know, everything's complicated, right? You know, nothing is solely good or bad. And there was a bit of, I think, good in terms of.

Dario22:39Do you think, with regards to the employees that you kind of saw weren't too motivated and whatnot, do you think that might have been a failure on your part? Or was it just like a bad match?

Craig22:49I think perhaps the only, I think perhaps it was a failure on my part and that the failure on my part is I don't want to be a draconian leader. I don't want to have to criticize people's. Here's the thing. If you're a bad match and you're a freelancer, I'll never call it you again. We're done. It's simple. The breakup's easy.

Kyrill24:01And it's funny because like freelancers, I think the reason why they will also try to push to do well when they do well is that they know that they value that relationship with their suppliers, I guess, or not their suppliers, their contractors, their partnerships, because if they do good work and continue to do good work, they know that they'll get the call back. They know that if they screw up or do really dumb mistakes like you just mentioned,

Dario24:17Contractors.

Kyrill24:31they're not gonna get a call back. And so that's why they value pushing that a little bit more. Whereas, I mean, you hear it all the time in a lot of full -time roles, there's always gonna be sometimes people that once they get into that role, they may seem really hardworking right at the beginning, but then they get a little bit too complacent. There's no motivation in a way, right? And I wonder how that is like.

Craig25:01Well…

Kyrill25:24it up until this point, it hasn't made financial sense for us to do it. And that's why we still stick to the financial or sorry, the freelance model. And it's just interesting to kind of hear all these not horror stories, but like, you know, like the good and the bad experiences of full timers.

Craig25:31Yeah.

Craig25:35Ahem.

Dario25:39We were, we were getting close to, sorry, go ahead. I was just going to say that we were getting close to bringing someone on, but then a friend of ours mentioned, I meant, I think I mentioned this on the previous episode, but they use like a virtual assistant out of the Philippines and what they use that person for was essentially what we wanted to bring another person on for, right? To get, to deal with all the admin and all the.

Craig25:41I don't think… no, go ahead Dario, I'm sorry.

Craig25:55Yeah.

Dario26:05excess work. So I think even going forward, Kirill and I might still be very slim organization. And the other thing made so much more financial sense to like, we're now in the process of going through that. So we'll see how it works out. But yeah, it's tough. It's tough trying to hire.

Craig26:05Yeah.

Craig26:11It's the two man team.

Craig26:18I mean, I think I have so many thoughts on that, but I do think you, I think you're absolutely right, Carol, that, you know, here's the thing with being a freelancer, you have ownership, because you're your business. So we're no different than them. You know, it's just, we have three employees, they have one.

Kyrill27:39Yeah.

Craig28:00We're all the same thing. There's just some of these boxes contain more individuals than others. And then the thing that I think is that I hear from everyone is there's, I think the fact that people are independent contractors also leads to a lot of.

Craig29:44So yeah, it's a hard thing. And especially because I think it's become a much more difficult industry to be profitable in. That's why you, you know, 10 years ago, you guys might've been in a position where you're like, hey, let's bring somebody else on the team. We want to grow the team. Cause there is something about physically having other people in the mix, right? You know, that's a whole different energy and you have that team here localized, but.

Kyrill29:52Yeah.

Kyrill30:05Yeah.

Craig30:14It is certainly a much harder industry to succeed in and to profit in than it was a decade ago.

Dario30:25Yeah. I mean, especially when you break it down on a financial level, cause it's like, if you bring on someone to be like, you know, production coordinator, like it's going to run you. I don't know what's the average salary here in Canada is like what 50 K a year. So it's like, that would be a good chunk every month that you'd have to allocate for that. Plus that's like what they get. There's also the other stuff that you have to put into it as a business owner. So like, yeah, if it costs you like, if it, if they get 50, it's probably costing you like, I don't know, 60 something.

Kyrill30:25Yeah.

Craig30:50Right. A lot. Yeah.

Kyrill30:5270, 60, 70, like health insurance, taxes, everything. And…

Dario30:54Yeah, so versus versus like six USD an hour, you get someone, you know, for however many hours you want that month. And then, you know, again, it's not like I have to pay their pension or whatever. It's like if we don't need them anymore, they get someone else or just cut that off.

Craig30:57Yep.

Craig31:03Yeah.

Craig31:09Yeah.

Kyrill31:11It's like another freelancer. It's like, the funny thing is I find, I feel like what we're all trying to do is like find more freelancers to kind of like work more closely with, but in like different roles than we expect. There is something to say that, you know, it's like you said, it's good to find people that you can work with in person because there's nothing like wanting to succeed in something with other people and celebrate together as a team. That's why.

Craig32:14Mm -hmm.

Dario32:24I think, Kirill, it's different. I think it's different in the States. I think they're dealing with way bigger budgets.

Kyrill32:28Well, that's what I'm curious about. What is your experience working with nonprofits, typically in Chicago?

Craig32:31Hmm

Craig32:36Yeah, I mean, the good thing about nonprofits is that their mission is typically something you can get behind and feel good about. And you know that if you're contributing to their cause, you're making a measurable impact in people's lives.

Dario33:36I noticed with a lot of American production companies, like there's quite a few that focus on, you know, like nonprofits. So I always figured, okay, the budgets must have been bigger because here in Canada, it's like almost no one specializes or, you know, like has a good chunk of their income coming in from the nonprofits.

Craig33:48Hmm.

Craig33:52Yeah, we're not like that's not I would say almost 50 % of our work is from nonprofits.

Dario34:01That's a good chunk.

Kyrill34:0150, wow, that is a large amount, yeah.

Craig34:04But, I'm not sure that it's 50 % of our income. You know what I mean? If that makes sense. So…

Dario34:05That's not normal here.

Dario34:10Okay, yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah.

Kyrill34:1150 % of the work but not 50 % of the income. Okay.

Craig34:15Yeah, when, you know, they aren't, it is almost always working with a reduced budget for sure. I think it's.

Dario35:11Good Gala.

Craig35:26and see them start to raise funds and know that, wow, part of that was the potency of the story we told. And that now, you know, whatever that case is, whether it's ALS, whether it's, you know, impoverished, you know, scholarship funds or whatever, it's like to know.

Dario36:11Okay.

Kyrill36:12Yeah.

Craig36:15So I think that the other stuff like the corporate commercial stuff is.

Dario37:31That's about 10 ,000 Canadian dollars. I'm just joking. Little currency joke out there.

Craig37:34I was like, wow, I'm moving to Canada. But we're also not, you know, we're not doing $50 ,000 nonprofit campaigns, right? So it's, yeah, it's an interesting place to be.

Kyrill37:34Hahaha

Dario37:56Since you're your old business partner left you are you because you sound like a much more creative person Like are you doing just exclusively business side now? Do you still chime in on the creative end of things like what's what's your role breakdown like?

Craig38:11with the company, yeah, I mean, I think my official title is creative director. I'm not even sure what that means. It just sounded good at the time. You know what I mean? It seemed to make sense. Obviously, yeah, exactly. I'm a creative person.

Kyrill38:19Hahaha!

Dario38:19Ha ha ha ha ha.

Dario38:24It's a director who's creative.

Kyrill38:29I feel like our roles have changed over the years, you know, like, because when you're running your own production company at that point, it's sometimes like, it's like, what's your role depends on who you're talking to, you know, at that point, right? Cause cause we, we change. Yeah, exactly. We're everything.

Craig38:40everything. The answer is everything, right? But

Dario38:47I just put producer on the contracts. That's all I put.

Craig38:49That makes sense. I mean, I could put that too. I am a director, so I think that even though obviously that means a different thing than a director, I think that resonated with me more, because I would say I'm fundamentally a director. But I…

Kyrill38:51That's it's Kaya.

Dario39:05Can you imagine if we're like those people that, you know, those filmmakers where they do written, directed and produced by blank, we should do the same. It's like CEO, CFO, producer, director. Funded by.

Craig39:11Yeah. I mean, that's.

Kyrill39:13Props done by, music done by, funded by. It's like literally every role, it's just one name, the same name listed.

Craig39:17for us, yeah. Yeah.

Dario39:24One name.

Craig39:24And that, yeah, that was the reality of a lot of my creative work throughout my career, but apart from the business. But yeah, I don't know that I'm more creative now. What was the question? I'm sorry, maybe I've forgotten.

Kyrill39:31Yeah, it's true.

Dario39:40I was just wondering, because everything you say sounds like you're very… What part of the brain is the creative side? Left side? Right? Whichever side it is. You sound like a very… Well, whatever side it is. You sound like a very creative person, but then you're having to run the whole operation now, right? So it's kind of hard to juggle both. I was just wondering how you handle that.

Craig39:47I think it's the right… Seems like it should be the left. Yeah.

Craig39:59Sure.

Kyrill40:34And you said it was a natural progression too. It wasn't like you just all of a sudden took over an entire business arm of the business and then just had to figure it out. It's like it was a natural progression. Like you mentioned, you had already kind of built those relationships. You were already kind of doing the role as your business partner was basically like a silent partner, as you mentioned. So I guess it wasn't that big of a switch at that point.

Craig40:46Right.

Craig40:53Yeah.

Kyrill41:48They're worth it.

Craig42:03hanging out just right making movies or drawing comics or like free creativity just being you know creative animal and not thinking about or having to think about things like taxes and and insurance and all that that is of course an impossibility but I think the more moments in my life that I can cultivate that sort of a spirit the happier I am

Kyrill42:27called adulting, we have to adult, we can't escape that, you know? How has it been in terms of like the creative arm and now the business arm, basically, was it the year of the Phoenix productions and Motion Source? Because you said now that you handle a lot of your creative endeavors through that other name, does your team help you with that or do you kind of keep it?

Craig42:30I refuse. I refuse.

Dario42:36HUT

Craig42:45Hmm.

Kyrill42:56they do. So you just, it's like more passion projects for the team kind of you're kind of doing. Right.

Craig42:59I'd say… Yeah.

Dario43:01Well, they're his employees, Keral, like he kind of tells him go work on this, they go work on it.

Craig43:04Well, it's not even not even.

Kyrill43:05But I mean, if they're busy, if they're busy with the business stuff, that's what I mean. It's like, if they're busy with that, does he have time to, is he able to bring them on?

Craig43:09No, it's always optional because you're the Phoenix doesn't have any employees technically, right? So we're working on a documentary right now.

Dario44:51Yeah.

Craig45:09in the context of video production makes a lot more sense to me than going and getting a day job in an office or which, and I would also kill myself. Well, God forbid I, God, for me, that just, the lack of variety and the lack of being around with things that are of value to me. And I, God forbid that I ever have to, you know, not be in a position like this, but no disrespect to people that work in offices. It's just for my own, you know, attitude.

Dario45:15Mm -hmm.

Dario45:37I think the same too, every time we go on set at these corporate offices and was like, it's fine for like a couple of hours, but not for life.

Craig45:39Yeah, yeah. Well, I just, yeah. And I want to be clear, there's a lot of different kinds of people. So I'm not disrespecting that. This is my own attitude towards my own life. And I think that in general though, and I'm not going to speak for you guys, I've met more video production business owners that weren't.

Dario46:31I've noticed an interesting trend with a lot of the last guests that have been coming on and I don't know if it's an age thing where after you hit 40 you're like okay time to fire up the passion for making movies because we all get into this because we love movies and everything and then we get into it and then if you get to the point where you got your own company you're just too focused on growing the business right? Making films kind of becomes like it goes to the back of your mind.

Craig46:56Yeah.

Kyrill46:57It takes a backseat. Yeah.

Dario46:58Yeah, it goes to the back of your mind. I don't know if it's like you get to a certain age where it comes back up and you're like, okay, I've done everything I needed to with this company. Now I want to kind of go back to the reason why I got into this in the first place.

Craig47:05Hmm. Hmm.

Craig48:51Now we've been able to, there's always stresses and things always butt heads, but I've been able to get to a place where it's sort of like, okay, we can do corporate commercial nonprofit. We could do that work. We have a lot of wonderful relationships with clients. We have great crew that we have great relationships with, and this is beneficial to everybody. This is that bottom row of the pyramid. This is taking care of that. But now we could move up the pyramid and say like, what are these other things we want to do and put our focus into?

Dario49:30What's it about?

Craig49:35So the world's largest arcade, and I think probably the largest arcade in history, it's a block long, it's just outside of Chicago. And it turns out, so that's interesting, but the guy that runs it, this guy Doc, who is an absolute character, long black hair, black fingerless Kevlar knuckled gloves, black trans am, black Kung Fu jacket with the big ghost logo on the back, Galpin Ghost Arcade. One of the biggest Godzilla model collectors in the world trained in Kung Fu.

Kyrill49:43wow.

Craig50:05office there's about 200 kung fu weapons there, musician, just most interesting guy. It also turns out that since he's since he was 17 years old he's about 46 now he has been trying to finish his own arcade game which he believes will revolutionize the industry and bring the the format back.

Kyrill50:51wow.

Craig50:58the game three times, this great, you know, life's ambition, and after what, 28 years now, it's still not finished. But he's created this empire and it's known in that area, retro gaming and video games and stuff is known over the world. I mean, the creator of Pac -Man flew out just to see the arcade. So when I heard this story and then I met Doc and he's a super interesting guy, very sweet person and just very interesting guy, it was like…

Dario51:18well.

Craig51:27what's the story? And starting to tell the story and everything, it relates a lot to what we're talking about now, which is like there's something you love and you're passionate about and you never, like he had the courage to never give up on that. And when you see the film, which will hopefully be done this year, you will see that there were times when dudes, you know, he's got 40 credit cards.

Dario52:09How do you get 40 credit cards?

Craig52:11I may not be 40, but we're talking in that. Yeah. We're. This is probably also like 2000 or 1999 or something. He said they literally. Yeah. People would just mail card opportunities to you. So you literally got, yeah. He literally got it. He got a piece of mail once to his dog.

Kyrill52:13The US are willing to give you credit cards, Dario. They mail them to you. That's how crazy it is.

Dario52:16Jesus that's amazing

Kyrill52:31See, I told you.

Dario52:32Wow. How times have changed.

Craig52:38and it was a credit card offer to his dog and he's like, okay, filled it out, send it in to his dog at a credit card. So he was, you know, financing. Well, yeah, this was, this is the past. It is wild, but this is the past. So, and I can, I can, yeah, I could send you guys, we did a Kickstarter.

Dario52:46Bro, America is wild, man. The dog has a credit card.

Kyrill52:56800.

Craig53:03a year ago we ran a Kickstarter so we had to cut a trailer. I mean obviously the film's not done but we had to cut a trailer with the material we had. I can send that to you guys if you want to check it out. But that's that film. But what I'm getting at is like I want to be a guy that's making a movie a year regardless of anything else. You know what I mean? And that might…

Dario53:23Just for yourself, like as a passion project or for like, I don't know. Okay.

Craig53:26No, as a filmmaker. It's part of the global filmmaking community, making at least a movie a year. So I'm writing a film now.

Dario53:32So you want to do like a career, like a career shift basically from.

Craig53:36Yeah, I mean, I'm happy doing both. Look at the reality of it. Like most many directors, certainly many DPs and people, they're not just making movies. You know, it's like, I'm just going to randomly pick someone. I don't know if this is true, but like Matthew LeBoutique, who shoots all of Aronofsky's films and stuff, it's like he's probably also shooting commercials.

Kyrill54:54It's not realistic long -term. To only do that, right?

Craig55:02position, yeah, but it's possible. So if that is in the cards, awesome. But I think that again, most successful indie filmmakers, what do you think they're doing when they're, I mean, how many films are they doing? Most aren't doing a film a year. What are they doing the rest of the time? Because films don't make that much money anymore, from my understanding, right? So.

Craig57:00have so many more experiences to draw from now to then bring those, the lessons I've learned there to the set of a commercial or whatever the case may be. So, and I've met so many more people. we need this now. I know the guy for that. We were, we did a music video together or whatever. So I think it's ultimately a very beneficial thing for everybody, including myself and my own sanity.

Kyrill57:24One thing I've heard from other creatives in our industry especially is that one thing they do to kind of help broaden their horizons and improve with their client work or any of their main filmmaking portfolio or anything like that is drawing on experiences, drawing on from other experiences that they have like hobbies and interests that they might have. And that helps kind of elevate a lot of the things that they do in their other work. And like you said, if you're able to do,

Dario57:24Nice.

Kyrill57:53a lot of documentary storytelling, narrative storytelling that you do on the side as your hobby, as your passion, that can translate into the corporate scene because then you don't know, because then you can figure out different ways to kind of tell your clients stories and pitch ideas that they otherwise wouldn't have thought of than just playing the safe route, you know? So it's, you have to dabble in other aspects in order to elevate the main.

Craig58:22I mean.

Dario01:00:07Eh.

Kyrill01:00:09Yeah, if you want to wait eight months for it, you know, like then yeah It's it's like

Dario01:00:10Yeah.

Craig01:00:11Is that a thing? Okay. Yeah.

Dario01:00:13I don't know what they tell you guys down there but it's not… the grass is not that green over here.

Craig01:00:19Okay.

Kyrill01:00:19You pay with time, not money. That's the difference, which sometimes is worth more.

Craig01:00:22Okay.

Dario01:00:23Here basically, here basically they wait until you get so sick and then they're like, well, we could help kill you if you want. That's Canadian healthcare.

Craig01:00:30man. So do you have to do can you purchase then private insurance that'll bump you up?

Dario01:00:37They're basically introducing private healthcare now because our free healthcare is so bad that people are just dying and they're like, well, why fly over? We might as well introduce it here. So.

Kyrill01:00:38No, it doesn't, but…

Craig01:00:52That's really sad. Yeah, it seems like in a civilized world, everybody should have decent health care. Everybody should have food. Everyone should have rent and clothing. So yeah, it's kind of a disgusting situation. I'm sorry to hear that. It's not more ideal. Everyone hears, I'm going to go to Canada, man. I'm going to go to Canada over there.

Dario01:01:07No everyone everyone here everyone here wants to go to the States It was I was getting a haircut today my barbers we were talking to my barber about this and he's like Yeah, man, all my clients say they want to go to the States cuz he's he's half American So I was like man, I wish I was you right now

Kyrill01:01:11Yah, yah, yeah.

Craig01:01:16Yeah, the grass, like you said, the grass is always greener, I guess.

Craig01:01:33Yeah, I guess it's bad everywhere, man. You know, life's just hard.

Dario01:01:38Yeah.

Kyrill01:01:39pick your poison wherever you are essentially, right? It's like, you might have a little bit of this, but not this. You know, it's like in video production when you're selling to clients, you want it good, fast or cheap. You can only pick two, you know? It's the same thing, but.

Craig01:01:42I guess.

Dario01:01:44Heh heh.

Dario01:01:49Pick two. Good economy, good health care and low cost of living. Pick two of the three.

Craig01:01:50Yeah. Yeah, it's true. That's very true.

Craig01:02:00It should be a thing though. I think as a species we need to reach that.

Dario01:02:05someone's got to do it but the question is who where's the money gonna come from that's always a key question

Craig01:02:07Yeah.

Kyrill01:02:08Who will pay for it? That's the sad thing. Yeah, it's like, how is the money gonna go for it? But…

Craig01:02:14I mean, money's an illusion anyway, man, right? It's just, we said, hey, this piece of paper is worth X for no reason. None of it doesn't actually relate to anything in reality. So just make a better world. I don't know. Just go make movies, give everybody healthcare. You know, it should be simple. Yeah.

Kyrill01:02:30In the perfect world, yeah.

Dario01:02:33Anyways.

Kyrill01:02:35Well, on that optimistic note, I think this is a good point to kind of end the podcast. Before we do wrap up, how did you come up with the name Motion Source for the business?

Craig01:02:47We, so my business partner, John, that I had started with, him and I were trying to brainstorm on a name and not coming up with anything that.

Dario01:03:25motion source.

Kyrill01:03:41It works. It works.

Craig01:03:46Yeah, it was just, if anything, it was just sort of a compromise, but also I think for me a little bit of like an homage to the origins of my partner at the time and kind of maybe honoring him a little bit.

Dario01:04:00It sounds good as a name, I like it.

Kyrill01:04:01And it's very applicable. It's very applicable to the business as well It's it's not easy to find a good name that also sticks and also works and also is memorable and also you get the dot -com for so That's the ultimate one. No

Craig01:04:02thank you guys.

Dario01:04:14Hehehe

Craig01:04:14Well, we could, we couldn't, there was no, so Getty images, no, we have it now, but I think it was like, I think it was, maybe it wasn't Getty images. I think that would be crazy, but somebody else had it. And then it went up for sale, probably six, seven years into our, 10 years and we had motion source .net. So motion source .com, com came up and I think it was like $3 ,000 and we're like,

Kyrill01:04:20you have it now, okay.

Kyrill01:04:41that's not bad.

Craig01:04:43But at the time we were like a newer company and you're like, man, everybody. Yeah, you gotta do it. You gotta have the dot com. You know you can't.

Kyrill01:04:46Yeah, yeah.

Dario01:04:47a liar.

Kyrill01:04:49Yeah.

Dario01:04:50I'm amazed, I'm amazed you guys went with that name, not having the .com. That's kind of crazy. Cause .net is like, it's sketchy. Like who uses .net?

Kyrill01:04:55Yeah.

Craig01:04:56Yeah.

Kyrill01:05:30Yeah, that was like one of our things when we were starting our company name was like, can we get the dot com for it? Like if, if we didn't have to, if we decided to go the other route, there were probably a lot, a lot of different names we could have probably gone with if it wasn't for, for .com. But you know, like you kind of need it and it helps and it helps.

Dario01:05:34trying to find the .com.

Craig01:05:47I think that was smart. I think that was smart. I think whenever you see a dot something else, it's just, there's a moment of like eeriness to that. Like, yeah, wait, what is it? You know, so it just, yeah, yeah, yeah. So I think that was smart. Yeah. So I think you guys went about it the right way and I would highly recommend anybody else starting their own company do the same thing.

Kyrill01:05:54Hesitation.

Dario01:05:55Yeah. Am I on the right website?

Kyrill01:05:59Is it safe to open?

Dario01:06:02Yeah.

Dario01:06:10Yeah. All right. Well, thank you, Greg. If you want to find Craig, go to motion source dot com and your socials are what at motion source or were you not able to get those?

Craig01:06:17dot com.

Kyrill01:06:23Motion .source.

Dario01:06:31Go for it.

Kyrill01:06:33Yeah, go for it.

Craig01:06:39just script font is what we ended up with. And we went through so many designers and from all over the world and we were working with a British designer and he had done some designs, handed them in. That's okay, what about this, this, the other? Can you come up with some more options? He did that, handed them in. I don't know, you know, maybe we could do this, this. And he came back with a third set of options. And I don't know where the disconnect happened but one of them said motion sauce and it was being scripted.

Kyrill01:07:09AHAHAHAHA!

Dario01:07:12He was messing with you. Yeah, he was messing with you.

Kyrill01:07:13He was messing with you. He was messing with you.

Dario01:07:32What's the other narrative one called? Phoenix .com .com or .net.

Craig01:07:36Year of the Phoenix, year of the Phoenix, year of the Phoenix, no dot com, yearofthephoenixproductions .com. I think someone else had year of the Phoenix. I'm like, who else came up with that? Okay.

Kyrill01:07:38Year of the Phoenix.

Dario01:07:45Okay.

Kyrill01:07:50That was like us with ours, like we wanted laps .com, but that was taken. So we went laps productions.

Craig01:07:56Yeah, exactly, exactly. So yeah, if you're interested, check it out there.

Dario01:08:01Yeah, check out his trailer. I remember checking it out when we first got in touch. It's pretty interesting. I think it was on that website you mentioned. Yeah, it's pretty interesting. The guy is the main character is quite, he's quite a character. Yeah. Well, anyways, thank you again, Craig. And yeah, see you next time.

Kyrill01:08:02Sounds great.

Craig01:08:04I did send that to you then. Okay, cool.

Kyrill01:08:07For the, for the, for the doc?

Craig01:08:09Yeah.

Kyrill01:08:12Yeah, I want to see it. I want to see it.

Craig01:08:16That's good to hear.

Kyrill01:08:19Perfect.

Craig01:08:23Thank you guys.