Episode 27
How to Grow Organically (ft. Noravera)
Geoff Livingston did not grow Noravera with cold calls or ad spend. He grew it the slow way, one introduction at a time. From filming skiing and mountain biking with friends, to a stint at a doomed YouTube-style sports network, to four years of real estate and wedding work with his longtime friend Brian, Geoff built his Vancouver video company on good work, transparency, and word of mouth. A decade in, Noravera is about nine people and focused on bigger, more creative projects.
In this episode, Geoff joins Dario and Kyrill to unpack how to grow organically: why he has never done cold outreach, how the team scaled from two people to nine as the work demanded it, why pre-production is the line item most companies undervalue, what it was like to buy out his first business partner seven months before the pandemic, and why Noravera deliberately runs from retainers toward larger clients.
Key Takeaways
- Grow through word of mouth, not cold calls. Geoff has never done cold outreach. Every Noravera client came from one person introducing another, a slow chain that compounds over time.
- Do good work and do not be a jerk. His whole growth engine is consistently strong work plus being open, transparent, and easy to deal with, so clients want to refer you on.
- Let the team grow with the workload. Noravera went from two people to nine organically, adding hires only as the work demanded it rather than staffing up ahead of demand.
- Freelance the specialist roles when it fits. In the pandemic they moved cinematographers to freelance, which let those people work across clients and keep sharpening their craft.
- Charge more for pre-production than you think. They consistently undervalued it and often billed close to double their first estimate. Time invested upfront saves time later and keeps clients aligned.
- A partner buyout can speed you up. With no one to disagree with, Geoff could decide and adjust faster, though the pandemic arrived seven months later to test it.
- Chase bigger clients, not retainers. Noravera deliberately avoids retainers and small jobs. Bigger projects mean more creative work and less time lost managing many small accounts.
Timestamps
Why Organic Growth Beats Cold Outreach
Geoff has never made a cold call, and he does not plan to start. He hates receiving them, so he refuses to build his business on them. Instead, Noravera grew the slow way: through relationships, free work early on to get in the door, and a reputation for doing good work without being difficult. It is the least scalable-sounding strategy on paper and one of the most durable in practice, because every satisfied client becomes a referral to the next. As Dario noted, organic networking is the most effective method and also the slowest and most demanding, since cold outreach done right is essentially a full-time job you cannot run alongside everything else. For more of the show’s practical playbook on building a video business this way, see the earlier episode of business tips for video production.
“It's always been word of mouth for us. You get connected to one person that connects you to another who connects you to another.”
Geoff Livingston, NoraveraGrowing the Team Without Overreaching
Noravera started as two people, Geoff and Brian, and is now about nine, with a couple more on the way. The growth was organic in the truest sense: they added people only as they got busier, never ahead of demand. When the pandemic forced a restructure, they let go of internal specialist roles like cinematographers and kept working with them as freelancers, which actually helped those people by freeing them to work across clients and keep improving. That flexible mix of a lean core and trusted freelancers is exactly the trade-off Lapse breaks down in its comparison of a full production company versus a solo videographer. The hardest part, Kyrill added, is finding talent who bring backgrounds and skills you do not already have.
Pre-Production Is the Line Item You Undervalue
Ask Geoff where most companies leave money and confidence on the table and the answer is pre-production. Noravera does not track it to the minute, and is even dialing back some time tracking, but the bigger lesson is that they historically undervalued the planning stage and would routinely quote close to double their first estimate once they were honest about the hours. Even when a client arrives with a finished script and concept, someone still has to plan locations, talent, and the hundred other details that make a shoot go smoothly. Lapse walks through where that planning fits in its guide to the corporate video production process, and the case for pricing it properly is the same logic behind its breakdown of what a video actually costs.
“The more time you can put in upfront to be sure of what you're going to be shooting, the more time that it saves you later and the happier the client will be.”
Geoff Livingston, NoraveraPartnerships, Buying Out, and Running From Retainers
The other half of the conversation is about partnership. Geoff built the company with Brian, the creative eye to his business sense, then eventually bought him out. He is candid that going solo brought more pressure but also more speed: with no one to disagree with, he could decide, move, and adjust faster, though the pandemic hit seven months later to test that new setup. The dynamic of splitting business and creative roles between partners is a recurring theme on the show, from how Lapse divides its own responsibilities to the deeper dive on creative disagreements in the episode on the benefits of co-directing.
On where Noravera is headed, Geoff is doing the opposite of the industry. Instead of chasing retainer clients for a safe monthly paycheck, the team is deliberately shying away from retainers and small projects to pursue bigger, more creative work. Retainers, he argues, often cap your upside and lock you in for months, while a stable of small accounts drains time in management. It is the mirror image of the scaling and retainer debate that the next episode digs into with Play Creative on scalability and pre-production.
Frequently Asked Questions
Who is Geoff Livingston?
The founder of Noravera, a Vancouver video production company. He started it about a decade ago with a friend doing real estate and wedding videos, moved into agency and corporate work, and later bought out his business partner.
What is Noravera?
A Vancouver, British Columbia video production company focused on beautiful, emotional, engaging stories, working largely with agencies. The team is around nine people. Site: noravera.com.
What does it mean to grow a video business organically?
Growing through referrals and relationships rather than cold outreach or paid ads. It is slower, but each client tends to connect you to the next, and the work compounds over time.
Should you charge more for pre-production?
Yes. Geoff’s team consistently undervalued it and often billed roughly double their original estimate. Time invested upfront reduces problems later and keeps everyone aligned on what is being shot.
Why does Noravera avoid retainers?
By choice. Retainers offer a steadier paycheck but usually cap the upside and lock you in for months. Noravera prefers larger, more creative projects, the opposite of the common retainer strategy.
The Hosts
Dario Nouri and Kyrill Lazarov are the co-founders of Lapse Productions, a Toronto video production company, and the hosts of Creatives Grab Coffee, a weekly show about the business of video production.
About
Creatives Grab Coffee is a podcast about the business behind video production: sales, strategy, pricing, team building, and everything that happens off camera. New episodes every week on YouTube, Spotify, and Apple Podcasts.
Lapse Productions is a Toronto-based video production company serving tech, finance, healthcare, and manufacturing clients with corporate, promotional, event, and testimonial video. New to commissioning video? Start with our guide to the types of corporate video.
Noravera is a video production company based in Vancouver, British Columbia, focused on creating beautiful, emotional, and engaging stories. Founded by Geoff Livingston, the roughly nine-person team grew organically from early real estate and wedding work into agency and corporate projects, and today concentrates on larger, more creative productions. Learn more at noravera.com.
Full Transcript
Read the full episode transcript
This is an edited transcript of the conversation, condensed for readability. For chapter deep-links into the video, use the Timestamps section above.
Kyrill LazarovWelcome everybody to Creatives Grab Coffee. Today we're joined by Geoff Livingston from Noravera, a video production company based out of Vancouver, B.C.. His video production company focuses on creating beautiful, emotional and engaging stories. Welcome to the show Geoff.
Geoff LivingstonThanks for having me.
Kyrill LazarovSo how is it over in B.C. right now? Are you experiencing any slow and fast cycles? Because we thought we had them. Every December to March was very slow for us. But then this year was the total opposite, we were busy right from the start.
Geoff LivingstonYeah, it's something that we've been trying to figure out, and we've had numbers tracked for like a few years now, like four or five years. And some years it has stayed busy right through. We tend to work with other agencies, so they're usually starting their conversations with clients, like once the New Year kind of kicks off and then once those plans of how to move forward, then they'll reach out to us to start planning the video opportunities in the video side of things. So it tends to slow down for a month and a bit.
Dario NouriSo Geoff, why don't you give us a little background on yourself and Noravera?
Geoff LivingstonBasically, it has always been a passion of mine. Growing up my dad always says I was more engaged with the TV commercials than I was the actual shows. And I've always really paid attention to the creative. I grew up filming skiing and mountain biking with my friends. And then I went to Capilano College at the time then Kaplan University Tech Interactive Design where I did a little bit of web design and graphic design. My graphic design teacher told me that the business card I did was one of the worst that she's ever seen. So it's like, okay I'm going to stick to the video side of things as that was always that where I excelled in things. Then I ended up working for a company called Rip TV, which was an action sports online television network. It was a YouTube knockoff but they ended up running out of money. I got laid off, I went to the city and I'm getting my business degree and from there I did four years with my longtime friend Brian. He was super creative with the camera and I was more on the business kind of side of things. We started doing real estate videos and then did weddings for about four years and we're just like, let's just, let's give this a shot and see what can happen.
Dario NouriSo how tell us about the transition from real estate videos to wedding videos to corporate videos. Because I feel like that's probably something that a lot of production companies that are just starting out are trying to figure out.
Geoff LivingstonFor us, it was just like continuing to work at it and like meeting different people, like doing free work to get in and create opportunities and network. And for us, we worked for another wedding company for like four years and we just really wanted to start creating ideas versus capturing a day and filming something that's already pre-planned and then putting something together. We wanted to create, have an idea, pitch it, create it, and then be able to market it and work with companies that way.
Dario NouriHow long did the transition take? Did you implement a lot of cold outreach?
Geoff LivingstonWe never did cold outreach. Even till today. I always hate receiving cold calls, so I never really want to do cold calls. I'm continually trying to figure out other ways to approach people and make new connections. It's always been word of mouth for us. You get connected to one person that connects you to another who connects you to another. It's a slow process, but it just kind of evolves over time. It's quite surprising. And we've always done good work and haven't been jerks about things, to try to make it as enjoyable and fun for our client as possible and just being as open and transparent as we possibly can for all of our projects.
Dario NouriTrying to grow your network organically seems to be the most effective method but it's also the slowest and most challenging. Cold outreach also depends on how much time you have because its essentially a full time role. So its not something that you can implement if you are running multiple other aspects of your business.
Kyrill LazarovWhat's your current team structure?
Geoff LivingstonWe started 10 years ago with just the two of us and now we're currently at nine people and we're looking to bring on a couple more. The team's growth has been organic. We started it with just Brian and I and as we got busier and busier we added more people. During the pandemic we had to restructure our teams and let internal roles like cinematographers go. We still hire them as freelancers for our projects. So it's worked out well for them to just be able to work with other clients and continue continually improving that skill set.
Kyrill LazarovThe biggest challenge is finding talent where they come in with a diverse background and experiences and skill sets that you don't necessarily have. This is something a lot of companies and entrepreneurs need to be thinking about.
Geoff LivingstonAbsolutely. We've just brought on two senior producers this last fall that have really elevated our game and experience from an agency standpoint.
Dario NouriLets move on to pre-production. Do you get very granular in terms of how you charge for pre-production? Like down to the hours spent working on it.
Geoff LivingstonWe don't go that granular and we're even thinking about dialing back the time tracking on the pre-production side of things because it is such a granular thing. It's if you're spending 50 minutes on emailing this client, 15 minutes emailing this client, are you spending too much time internally versus just actually doing the work for clients? But if you guys are just starting to charge for a pre-production now, I would increase your hours on that side of things for when you're pitching projects. Its a significant amount of time and we've always kind of undervalued that. And we usually would put a number out there and it would often be double the amount of hours that we estimated for the pre-production side of things. The more time you can put in upfront to be sure of what you're going to be shooting, the more time that it saves you later and the happier the client will be because you've all agreed upon something at the start.
Kyrill LazarovHave you had to deal with push back on charging appropriate pre-production figures on projects where the client has already completed most of it on their end?
Geoff LivingstonYeah, it just comes down to experience I think, and how you have that conversation. We definitely have gotten pushback on budgets and even though they have put together a script and concepts it may need some tweaks and changes and then you still have to plan the location or if there is talent or all of these other things that do take time to put that together, even if it is presented to you fully written and scripted.
Dario NouriLet's talk about buying out your first business partner. How did that go?
Geoff LivingstonIt was definitely more pressure and then some intensity. But I enjoy that and because I no longer had someone that I had disagreements with I was able to make decisions faster and quicker. It was like let's make a decision, move forward, see if it works. Yes. Great. No, why not? OK, let's make that adjustment and let's move forward again. So it's been good. But then seven months later covid happened. So it was a whole new thing to figure out.
Dario NouriInteresting. And in terms of the future of your company, where are you headed?
Geoff LivingstonThe plan is to stay the course and take on bigger and bigger projects. We're shying away from smaller projects and retainer models just based on the skill set that we have, the team that we have, the interest that the team has and what they're wanting to do with their creative skills. So trying to find bigger clients allows us to do more creative projects. We're doing the opposite of what most companies are doing, which is trying to chase the retainer clients. Retainer clients offer the safer and more consistent paycheck but its usually not as much as what a big budget project will offer or sometimes its just as much but you don't have to lock yourself in for all those months. And what we find is that working with smaller clients there's a lot of management, a lot of time management versus just having like time to focus on a few larger clients.
Kyrill LazarovGeoff, thanks again for joining us on the show. We really appreciate you taking the time to share your experiences, especially some of those very personal stories that you mentioned. Thanks again.
Geoff LivingstonAppreciate it, guys. Thanks so much for having me. And I hope you got some value out of that. And I hope viewers and listeners get something out of it, too. So I appreciate it guys. Keep doing what you're doing.
